bluebirdjones Posted January 23, 2009 Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 I need to learn some more knots. The blood knot is the only one I can get to bed down nicely and my thinking is a well tied blood knot has got to be better than a badly tied grinner or palomar knot Funnily enough you could be wrong. I probably am Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salokcinnodrog Posted January 23, 2009 Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 I need to learn some more knots. The blood knot is the only one I can get to bed down nicely and my thinking is a well tied blood knot has got to be better than a badly tied grinner or palomar knot Funnily enough you could be wrong. I did a lot of tests with the palomar knot and even tied quickly (it's never going to be the neatest knot) I found that the hook link broke at the knotless knot more often than at the palomar. Keith You think its down to the eye rubbing and abrading the hooklink with a knotless knot? I haven't had many problems on mono with a Bloodknot, which I often go back to for Chub Fishing That little tag holds a worm or slug nicely on the hook Different monos take different knots as well, with some I'm confident in a Bloodknot, but with others I'm more comfortable with a Uni/Grinner. I do know that when I use a lighter hooklink and don't have any swivels as the join then 7lb Berkeley XL doesn't like Water knots unless they are tied perfectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moorsey Posted January 23, 2009 Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 Hi Nick I do always make sure that I start the "whip" of the knotless knot away from the "cut" in the eye but I do remember Adam Penning telling me that while he was with ESP they did loads of tests on lines and fluoros and found the same. In fact he was of the opinion that the knotless knot was probably the weak link. I am now so paranoid about knots that I rarely use the kk and have now reverted to my own version of the "Dumhoff" which is a pain to get used to tying but is a good knot when finished and doesn't "relax" like the kk when you slacken the tension. (I am concerned that it could be this relaxing and re-tightening that causes the problem with the kk.) If I was granted one wish that I could fish without one of the normal items that we now use I would choose line every time. Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salokcinnodrog Posted January 23, 2009 Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 Hi NickI do always make sure that I start the "whip" of the knotless knot away from the "cut" in the eye but I do remember Adam Penning telling me that while he was with ESP they did loads of tests on lines and fluoros and found the same. In fact he was of the opinion that the knotless knot was probably the weak link. I am now so paranoid about knots that I rarely use the kk and have now reverted to my own version of the "Dumhoff" which is a pain to get used to tying but is a good knot when finished and doesn't "relax" like the kk when you slacken the tension. (I am concerned that it could be this relaxing and re-tightening that causes the problem with the kk.) If I was granted one wish that I could fish without one of the normal items that we now use I would choose line every time. Keith I think that we forget that every time there is any tension on the line then the "knot" is under stress, and especially the KK. That tension can be from a fish, or even by the hookpoint "plucking" the lakebed as you start to retrieve. That tension and rubbing in a KK is going to create abrasion of some sort, albeit tiny damage, but how often do many of us cast out without putting on a fresh rig every time. I know that I've had a number of fish on "modern" hooks without changing the rig. I've almost completely gone back to tying and knotting my hooks on and Line Aligners again. I'd much rather have to whip on a separate hair, plus I can use a finer line or Hair Braid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
levigsp Posted January 23, 2009 Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 oh dear Im very supprized Nick never noticed the slip,knowing him Cos I use a double granny knot tied with a special loop and pulled down tight dry JOKING! Not noticed much recently, as Frank knows had other things on my mind I nearly always use the Uni knot, mainline and braid or for loops the knot on the kryston packaging. For some stupid reason I can't get my head round the Palomar knot As they say when the cats away seriously I use the polamar as much as posible with some lines. However I always try different knots on each new batch of line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
levigsp Posted January 23, 2009 Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 I need to learn some more knots. The blood knot is the only one I can get to bed down nicely and my thinking is a well tied blood knot has got to be better than a badly tied grinner or palomar knot Surely if you can bed a bloodknot down then you should be able to with the others,far easyer knots Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
levigsp Posted January 23, 2009 Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 I need to learn some more knots. The blood knot is the only one I can get to bed down nicely and my thinking is a well tied blood knot has got to be better than a badly tied grinner or palomar knot Funnily enough you could be wrong. I did a lot of tests with the palomar knot and even tied quickly (it's never going to be the neatest knot) I found that the hook link broke at the knotless knot more often than at the palomar. I agree with you totaly. I do tests on all my lines with different knots, to hooks and swivals and nearly everytime find the polamar the strongest,but it does look loose at times. Its a knot I use a lot of,apart from hook on which I use two different whiping knots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucker74 Posted January 23, 2009 Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 To back up what keith was saying about the strength of the palomar knot. i did my own tests with the knot and main line as i do pike fishing as well and in the event of getting snagged i like the line to break at the knot as the wire trace is not going to. my findings were that the main line broke every time at varying lengths and the knot held, i have only tried this on one line maybe different for other lines. so i do not use this knot when piking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southend30 Posted January 24, 2009 Report Share Posted January 24, 2009 Well i think all these knots have a place, i have used a modified blood knot for 30 years, if i lose fish its from hook-pulls(not often thankfully), generally i find the cheap lines might not like bloodknots but if your using strong/qaulity line(not braid or flourocarbon) the form of bloodknot i use is good enough to land my quarry, If you prepare properly, and have confidence in what catches you fish...why worry..tight lines chaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moorsey Posted January 24, 2009 Report Share Posted January 24, 2009 Well i think all these knots have a place, i have used a modified blood knot for 30 years, if i lose fish its from hook-pulls(not often thankfully), generally i find the cheap lines might not like bloodknots but if your using strong/qaulity line(not braid or flourocarbon) the form of bloodknot i use is good enough to land my quarry, If you prepare properly, and have confidence in what catches you fish...why worry..tight lines chaps. Strange that isn't it, I doubt that I have used a bloodknot for over 30 years in my general carp fishing. I started to discover stronger knots that were easier to tie back in the seventies and haven't used one since except for a brief spell when Terry invented the hinge rig. With the short length of bristle filament the blood knot was the only option but the thicknes and strength of the filament allowed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
levigsp Posted January 24, 2009 Report Share Posted January 24, 2009 Well i think all these knots have a place, i have used a modified blood knot for 30 years, if i lose fish its from hook-pulls(not often thankfully), generally i find the cheap lines might not like bloodknots but if your using strong/qaulity line(not braid or flourocarbon) the form of bloodknot i use is good enough to land my quarry, If you prepare properly, and have confidence in what catches you fish...why worry..tight lines chaps. Strange that isn't it, I doubt that I have used a bloodknot for over 30 years in my general carp fishing. I started to discover stronger knots that were easier to tie back in the seventies and haven't used one since except for a brief spell when Terry invented the hinge rig. With the short length of bristle filament the blood knot was the only option but the thicknes and strength of the filament allowed it. Im the same not used it for a lot of years. When I started salmon fishing ithe twice through the eye blood was the first knot I tried,only to find the fly vanishing over the horizon every time I mistimed my cast and put the power on. Simple polomar knot and another knot I do not know the name of stoped the problem. I am a stickler for trying the breaking strain of all my gear from hooks,swivals,hook length,line etc etc. I want to know that everytime I hook a fish regardless of size and place I will land it,unless the hook pulls. And on that point I have had far less pulls since testing the strenth of the hooks frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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