DIY Petfood Boilies Advise Please

[Barney2]

Dears

Im making boilies with good quality dry dog biscuits well blitzed up to fine powder in a Ninja

They have a pungent smell, and only bind well with 20% semolina or 10% albumen and 10% semolina (I hate soft boilies)

I need advice on how much hydrolysate to put in as well to make them more interesting please

[framey]

2 hours ago, Barney2 said:

Dears

Im making boilies with good quality dry dog biscuits well blitzed up to fine powder in a Ninja

They have a pungent smell, and only bind well with 20% semolina or 10% albumen and 10% semolina (I hate soft boilies)

I need advice on how much hydrolysate to put in as well to make them more interesting please

AA baits suggest up to 50ml per kilo of dry mix

[Barney2]

I don’t do dry mix and liquids separately mate I prefer to go by the egg for liquids

 

[salokcinnodrog]

3 hours ago, Barney2 said:

Dears

Im making boilies with good quality dry dog biscuits well blitzed up to fine powder in a Ninja

They have a pungent smell, and only bind well with 20% semolina or 10% albumen and 10% semolina (I hate soft boilies)

I need advice on how much hydrolysate to put in as well to make them more interesting please

25ml with 4eggs, and possibly as an overnight bait soak.

[Barney2]

I went 40g/ml on a mix yet to try mate

calanus has a gentle taste (quite nice)

Im not sure 50ml either way will make much difference.. someone else in the trade a bait guy at a major tackle shop said to go very high but it gets silly trying to bind eggs and messing around with albumen, whey gel, wpc etc lol

Edited April 16 by Barney2

[hutch]

15 hours ago, Barney2 said:

I went 40g/ml on a mix yet to try mate

calanus has a gentle taste (quite nice)

Im not sure 50ml either way will make much difference.. someone else in the trade a bait guy at a major tackle shop said to go very high but it gets silly trying to bind eggs and messing around with albumen, whey gel, wpc etc lol

You technically can go as high as you want with natural liquids, IMO they have a point where its just pointless adding any more (for me thats around 60-70ml) but some say as high as 120, 40 should be ok, personally I have a pref for one thick hydro combined with a thinner bulk liquid. dont forgot you can also give them a coating of hydro before freezing or prior to going to the lake to let them draw a bit more liquid in.

[elmoputney]

5 hours ago, hutch said:

You technically can go as high as you want with natural liquids, IMO they have a point where its just pointless adding any more (for me thats around 60-70ml) but some say as high as 120, 40 should be ok, personally I have a pref for one thick hydro combined with a thinner bulk liquid. dont forgot you can also give them a coating of hydro before freezing or prior to going to the lake to let them draw a bit more liquid in.

Just going to play devil's advocate a bit what if you put none into the mix and then just glugged them after boiling before freezing and then again before use? Would that not be the best way to add hydro liquids? 

[hutch]

3 hours ago, elmoputney said:

Just going to play devil's advocate a bit what if you put none into the mix and then just glugged them after boiling before freezing and then again before use? Would that not be the best way to add hydro liquids? 

As with everything when you play around with your own bait there are no hard and fast rules, what i would say is the liquid would probably not get as good a distribution of liquid right the way through the bait as it will only get drawn into mainly the outer layers, whhich will effect the amount of the the liquid remains in the boilie, or flipping it again only add alittle bit of liquid when making the bait and let it soak inot the outer layers using what the method you described

 

[salokcinnodrog]

22 hours ago, elmoputney said:

Just going to play devil's advocate a bit what if you put none into the mix and then just glugged them after boiling before freezing and then again before use? Would that not be the best way to add hydro liquids? 

 

18 hours ago, hutch said:

As with everything when you play around with your own bait there are no hard and fast rules, what i would say is the liquid would probably not get as good a distribution of liquid right the way through the bait as it will only get drawn into mainly the outer layers, whhich will effect the amount of the the liquid remains in the boilie, or flipping it again only add alittle bit of liquid when making the bait and let it soak inot the outer layers using what the method you described

 

Years ago I think Jim Gibbinson did the experiment of soaking plain unflavoured boilies in a coloured bait soak. It only coloured a millimetre skin around the boilies. The middle was total untouched.

It may go further in on a longer soak, but that 1mm would possibly have used up all the liquid he soaked them in. 

Anytime you use eggs you are binding the bait, creating a 'curtain' that substances can't get through easily.

Strangely enough I have been reading up on this in Rod Hutchinson's Carp: Now and Then. The bait chapters are very interesting on this and from his writings, it seems that the eggs are the main problem.

If you could remove the eggs from the mix maybe the soak would go further in faster.

Nutrabaits did The Fishfood Mix, which rolled without eggs. Boilies have been made without eggs, using other liquid ingredients, but those boilies tend not to have a long shelf life unfrozen.

[Barney2]

On 17/04/2025 at 10:38, hutch said:

You technically can go as high as you want with natural liquids, IMO they have a point where its just pointless adding any more (for me thats around 60-70ml) but some say as high as 120, 40 should be ok, personally I have a pref for one thick hydro combined with a thinner bulk liquid. dont forgot you can also give them a coating of hydro before freezing or prior to going to the lake to let them draw a bit more liquid in.

First batch I put in 20g Oyster sauce and 20g Calanus, it rolls and binds beautifully.. four posh eggs, (blitzed fine, twice, in Ninja F.P) organic dog biscuits, 22% organic semolina  to dry ings..

I’m a hippy I rate organic but what do you think of the Oyster sauce mate it is not a strong liquid but contains msg and msg enhancing guanylate stuff

 

[Barney2]

My old Wizard carp magnet mate reckons semolina with eggs is good, just that nothing else, both high quality proper grass fed eggs and pure organic semolina.. so you’re basically giving them past which is as we all know completely delicious

he uses it as tough hookbaits over mixed beans and seeds such as cooked spelt, he hates boilies in gen and thinks they’re too rich, he has a point, to a point, he caught on strawberries and stuff and is a proper Walrus character who can literally charm carp into his waiting arms

[Barney2]

Pasta

[Barney2]

On 17/04/2025 at 16:05, elmoputney said:

Just going to play devil's advocate a bit what if you put none into the mix and then just glugged them after boiling before freezing and then again before use? Would that not be the best way to add hydro liquids? 

I dunno I think you might underrate the power of them in a bait, others talking about eggs sealing up flavours etc, carp can smell  a bloodworm under the silt Im sure they can get a hint of a good hydro leaking out of a ball of boiled cake lol

[elmoputney]

1 hour ago, Barney2 said:

I dunno I think you might underrate the power of them in a bait, others talking about eggs sealing up flavours etc, carp can smell  a bloodworm under the silt Im sure they can get a hint of a good hydro leaking out of a ball of boiled cake lol

I nearly always use a hydro these days, 

I started thinking about viscosity earlier  and soaking with a 2 step approach you could try soaking in a thinned liquid first and then just glazing with a thicker hydro to coat the surface of the bait. But you could also just add it when mixing and I'm sure it will work 😂

[salokcinnodrog]

1 hour ago, Barney2 said:

I dunno I think you might underrate the power of them in a bait, others talking about eggs sealing up flavours etc, carp can smell  a bloodworm under the silt Im sure they can get a hint of a good hydro leaking out of a ball of boiled cake lol

I'm not sure that they 'smell' bloodworm until the released aminos are at the 'right' level. There may not be enough bloodworm in the silt to trigger feeding. If you have watched carp patrolling and feeding they visit the food spots, but might not stop, yet a couple of days later they will gorge on that spot, quite frequently as the larvae turn or hatch.

I've turned over bloodworm in the margins, finding a few, yet they are ignored, maybe not enough to stimulate feeding. 

Many small particles work on 'saturation'. Throw in say 6 grains of prepared hemp, and the carp will ignore them. Make it a pint and they are attracted to feed. A couple of grains of corn, nothing, make it a bucket of corn and they will eat it.

There are exceptions, sometimes on visibility, sweetcorn or maize.

 

When it comes to hydrolysate, there is a very big ingredient that I have found improved attraction with almost every liquid, and I keep referring to it, it is the only complete amino acid profile that is not meat based, liquid yeast.

 

 

[Barney2]

I think pet food is full of yeast mate.. it’s used cleverly for years by bait companies

and was apparently a high percentage of a big name base mix of the noughties.. I think I know which one it was

I ‘caught’ a massive bloodworm on my hook point at a very old silty sand pit, bailiff told me they can bite!? 😅

[salokcinnodrog]

9 hours ago, Barney2 said:

I think pet food is full of yeast mate.. it’s used cleverly for years by bait companies

and was apparently a high percentage of a big name base mix of the noughties.. I think I know which one it was

I ‘caught’ a massive bloodworm on my hook point at a very old silty sand pit, bailiff told me they can bite!? 😅

Yeast has been in plenty of baits; a very successful all fruit boilie, with added icing sugar, the original Nutrabaits Enervite, and Mainline got it very right with a number of baits. They also found or used the effective enzymes in pineapple to improve digestion of protein.

[Barney2]

I worked it out 

it’s nothing new using very good quality dog biscuits as a boilie base, I went for more wallop in the liquids plus an oil which is different, special and hard to find, plus semolina and albumen in dries.. bricks and mortar mix nothing very flash going on (however pet food is far from simple technology/science)

I spoke to a bait wizard who may be connected to here I am not going to name them or their workplace

I just wanted a mix that serves as good base feed and also serves as special hookbaits which are tough yet absolutely zero issues with safety as loose feed (I don’t rate soft baits and suspect that trend is mainly to do with a very obvious saving to be made)!!

soft boilies become roach ground bait rather too fast for my liking!!

Hydros are of course used successfully but I went against them in the end, but same old and I suspect often neither here nor there in a mix sometimes

anyway mix needs trialling soon as nights warm up properly, I don’t do cold damp fishing anymore, been there done that the T-shirt got tired of ‘hardcore’ a little while ago, back is creaky body is a bit tired and round now

anyway I see no harm in potentially showing a nice skint youngster reading here that there is still life in throwing your own mixes together simply, inexpensively

maybe I’m lucky but carp fishing can be simple, easy, cheap, straightforward and clutter free 

[elmoputney]

If you want to soak right into a bait, then it needs to be less viscous than Strawberry goo. 

[Barney2]

That’s soaked in quite well mate!?

I wouldn’t buy it though as I hate Korda

I am using Calanus as a simple bait soak to freshen up freezer baits and give them a little bit of protection from going off

I may yet try it in my actual mix but I went for something with more wallop to it 

[elmoputney]

5 hours ago, Barney2 said:

That’s soaked in quite well mate!?

I wouldn’t buy it though as I hate Korda

I am using Calanus as a simple bait soak to freshen up freezer baits and give them a little bit of protection from going off

I may yet try it in my actual mix but I went for something with more wallop to it 

Depends what you are trying to achieve, i thought the reason the liquid was added first was to get it right into the mix. My point was about trying to get a liquid right into the boilie post boil. I've always done pretty well when washing them out with a hydro mixed with some water, maybe the fact they ooze attraction and become fully saturated helps. 

[salokcinnodrog]

42 minutes ago, elmoputney said:

Depends what you are trying to achieve, i thought the reason the liquid was added first was to get it right into the mix. My point was about trying to get a liquid right into the boilie post boil. I've always done pretty well when washing them out with a hydro mixed with some water, maybe the fact they ooze attraction and become fully saturated helps. 

Don't forget that hydrolysates can also be solids (!).

Certain fish meals, beef meals and other proteins are types of hydrolysate, so can be used in the mix.

I have mentioned about eggs being the 'curtain' that stops the soluble proteins being released, although there is a but; in solid ingredient mixes with low protein ingredients, the soaking in a liquid hydrolysate may make the bait attractive even if the solid bait itself is just a ball of carbohydrates. 

Now make the same semolina base mix, but instead of using eggs mix in liquidised fish, liver, or squid or both. They don't keep well out of freezing, but the attraction is the enzymes that are breaking down the protein for easy digestion. Those three alone are natural hydrolysates!

[elmoputney]

13 hours ago, salokcinnodrog said:

Don't forget that hydrolysates can also be solids (!).

Certain fish meals, beef meals and other proteins are types of hydrolysate, so can be used in the mix.

I have mentioned about eggs being the 'curtain' that stops the soluble proteins being released, although there is a but; in solid ingredient mixes with low protein ingredients, the soaking in a liquid hydrolysate may make the bait attractive even if the solid bait itself is just a ball of carbohydrates. 

Now make the same semolina base mix, but instead of using eggs mix in liquidised fish, liver, or squid or both. They don't keep well out of freezing, but the attraction is the enzymes that are breaking down the protein for easy digestion. Those three alone are natural hydrolysates!

Maybe you could try this in place of liquidised liver? Might make it keep a bit longer. 

 

 

[elmoputney]

This video may also be of some interest to you guys, quite like the idea of DIY solubles tbh. 

 

[salokcinnodrog]

3 hours ago, elmoputney said:

Maybe you could try this in place of liquidised liver? Might make it keep a bit longer. 

 

 

That liver, squid and semolina mix was very successful on Savay. 

Don't think that baits that start breaking down quickly are ineffective, they can be better than washed out baits. The instant attraction of the actively working enzymes and the proteins. 

I don't know if you remember it, but I was using up my old mackeral and herring deadbaits by liquidising them, and adding to chapati flour mix, which is basically maize and wheat flour. Simple, again no eggs, and again they wouldn't keep out of freezing, but they didn't need to.