chillfactor Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Turnip you have a pm mate . let me know what you think via pm nice one Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turnip Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 So I see. ,... and in response, I have to inform you a),... are you sure it is legal,...b),...will it hurt,...c),...will you still love me in the morning? :mrgreen: :mrgreen: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillfactor Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 It will hurt like hell / barely legal / I'll be gone before you wake up .... and I thought I was weird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazlaaar Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 I would be reluctant to use the yeast on the basis that I don't know enough about the reactions that would/could occur with the ingredients I would possibly use during 'fermentation'. ie,.Blood Powder (lysine up or down?). (I'm a scaredy cat, scaredy cat, sittin on the door mat ) I would also look at alternatives - oh, I would (Deja vu re: enzymes) - Garlic powder! That said - the shop bought bait (boilie) which does contain the yeast additive is Goofies Danglies, so it obviously works. Yeah I see your point, this was really just an exercise to see what happens to the bait itself, maybe ill do a bit more looking before I think about fishing with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turnip Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 #59 & #60, nm - Do you still have the broken up boilie, nm? If so - what is the innards like now? Tbh - wont know unless you try them out if it works, but why wouldn't they. You've obviously thunk about it. What was the mix? Did you notice any difference when rolling it? - and how long did you set them aside to 'prove' before rolling/boiling? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salokcinnodrog Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 you can certainly ask, I like your approach its inquisitive rather than argumentative, for which I am only to happy to reply to, I thank you. Right, as humans we are fully aware what is good for us, we understand science. A fish does not, it will eat whatever is nutritious and available as an introduced or natural food source, tigers have no nutritional value but as a carp bait they are very good, fermented particle is a deadly bait, natural yeasts and natural sugars, we all seek the irristible bait, let me know when someone comes up with one or better still don't, all the fun would go out of it. The perfect diet probably consists of a chemical soup that is unpalatable to both fish and man, don't complicate it too much, 50 pounders caught on sweetcorn must sound alarm bells for anyone embarking on this school of thought. In hindsight, the baits are a little soft and maybe the inclusion of some Albumin may harden up the outer skin some what, after all it does work nicely on cork ball pop ups that are steamed for the same amount of time. I have left a pinch of paste and a couple of baits out on a plate to see what happens and the rest are in the freezer. I would be reluctant to use the yeast on the basis that I don't know enough about the reactions that would/could occur with the ingredients I would possibly use during 'fermentation'. ie,.Blood Powder (lysine up or down?). (I'm a scaredy cat, scaredy cat, sittin on the door mat ) I would also look at alternatives - oh, I would (Deja vu re: enzymes) - Garlic powder! That said - the shop bought bait (boilie) which does contain the yeast additive is Goofies Danglies, so it obviously works. Now this has really got me thinking, from CM's comments, some old Rod Hutchinson writings, Gary's playing around with yeast, thoughts on enzymes, my thinking and possibly why some Mainline baits could be so effective even though the main ingredients appear just to be a ball of breadcrumbs. I have known for years that baits that appear to be going off work very well, the sugars and enzymes creating a white fluff or pre- mould layer outside boilies, and smelly fermenting particles. Now Mainline are very very careful not to give away ingredients in their baits, but consider an active enzyme, a working yeast, and a base active liquid, be it corn steep, be it like Liquid Trigga, or even a Multimino type additive, you have what is essentially a bait that while apparently quite low in proteins, they are very easily processed and used. Grange CSL, Nutrabaits Trigga and some other baits do work best around 2 or 3 days out of the freezer, when that fluff is starting to appear, as far as I have ever thought, is that the enzymes were breaking it down, and effectively pre-digesting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazlaaar Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Its a birdfood base, Per pound 20ml amino blend 365 4ml caramel elite 1ml sweetner 1gm betaine hcl The texture hasn't changed in the baits, the paste had dried up a little as expected, its definitely starting to smell a bit, more so than normal, ill give them a couple of days to see the reaction, if there is one, but they are starting to kick up a little Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazlaaar Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 The mix of yeast was 30ml warm water 1 tsp granulated sugar 2 tsp Active Yeast This was just to activate the yeast, I put a towel over the glass and waited 10 minutes to see if it foamed up and it did, then just put it in with the eggs at the start of mixing. Im an old fuss pot, when it comes to smelling bait and probably wrong so for doing it, but unless I like the smell or more importantly taste, I go right off it, I battled for a long time with minamino, multimino, nutramino as I was constantly fighting to get a smooth blend. Elevating flavour labels and so on, it caught fish but I wasn't happy until a good friend put me on to the amino blend 365, it blends so much better, smells and tastes smoother, but there is something still missing, an essential oil, ive tried bergamot, black pepper, all sorts, even peppermint, but nothing yet, I am due to get some samples if geranium and juniper oil, but we'll see. You could definitely smell and taste the yeast in this experimental batch, its not as pungent as I thought it may be. Plus ive been looked into blending msg with the caramel label I have, which I have seen a few albeit cake and biscuit recipes with caramel and salt, but ill do little testers and see how it goes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillfactor Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Gary , I'm intrigued why you would taste a bait and if you don't like the taste think Mr carp would feel the same about it ? They taste & smell in a different way to us don't they ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazlaaar Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Nick You are right with Mainline, the Activ 8 was the stand out bait way back then, the problem is these enzymes are particularly hard to maintain and store for any length of time in a bait, which is why its never really caught on as big as some trends. ABS do some, Nash's The Key, looks like its enzyme rich, and I did notice the harder outer skin and softer middle on the baits which is what triggered my train of thought off. You know me im no expert, and can only talk with common sense, but when Keith Sykes talked about the key saying they did denature some of the enzymes through the cooking process, a bell rang in my head about reading the effects of blanching, a quick hot dip. Cooking the outside but not the inner, its the only way I can think of that doesn't denature all of the enzymes, leaving them to work their way out. Well that's my thinking anyway lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazlaaar Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Phil they do, I totally agree with you, its not so much the taste as the smoothness of the whole package im looking for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillfactor Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 (edited) Not sure it needs to be smooth. ... nothing wrong with a bit of texture in the finished product , or is it to make the rolling easier? Edited June 11, 2015 by chillfactor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazlaaar Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Just to add Phil My reasoning behind taste and smell are Tiger Nuts, why do they work? How do they work? Nobody really knows the answer, is it taste, is it smell because they have very little in the way of attractors and nutrients, but fish love em, so much so ive seen carp pooing them out and other fish coming up and hoovering the lot up. Personally I like to think its a combination of both taste and smell, they are definitely sweet and they definitely smell sweet. There are very few mentions about the actual texture and taste of a bait, but it is there from a long time ago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazlaaar Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Sorry I meant smooth as in smell and taste Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillfactor Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 I think tigers work because of the way they are prepared. .. Normally in a sweet talin of some sort , they also contain fatty acids , fats & vitamins which the carp might sniff out. I know someone who was importing tiger nut milk from Spain 15 years ago or more, and selling it into the carp world as a glug / additive I think they have more nutritional value than people give them credit for . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazlaaar Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Your probably right Phil, your certainly right about it being imported from Spain, they even used the same bottles, just stuck another label on it I would think there would be some fats present as well as sugars (carbs) and a few nutrients. I made them with coke, milk, all sorts, ive even made tiger milk, thats nice In fact, this will please carpmachine, if it wasn't for boilies or steamies in my case id still be on Tigers, but I like to think I can offer a bit more nutrition, and I like making baits and the whole science about it. And even if I am wrong, at least its down on here to show others and hopefully steer others in the right direction Turnip and nealjt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigewoodcock Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Gaz, have a word with coops. Msg and caramel has already been done to great effect on a bait we were using a few years ago. I still have some of the base mix left in my shed but the rats have been at it!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillfactor Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Your probably right Phil, your certainly right about it being imported from Spain, they even used the same bottles, just stuck another label on it it was my mate jerry he couldn't import it quick enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazlaaar Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 it was my mate jerry he couldn't import it quick enough Growler Juice by any chance, or are we talking different people? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillfactor Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Gaz, have a word with coops. Msg and caramel has already been done to great effect on a bait we were using a few years ago. I still have some of the base mix left in my shed but the rats have been at it!!!! I've still got 5k in the freezer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazlaaar Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Gaz, have a word with coops. Msg and caramel has already been done to great effect on a bait we were using a few years ago. I still have some of the base mix left in my shed but the rats have been at it!!!! Cheers Nige, it was a biscuit recipe that gave me the idea believe it or not, lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillfactor Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Growler Juice by any chance, or are we talking different people? I can't remember what he called it tbh .... but I know he was the only one importing it into the country for carp fishing. I wouldn't of put it past him calling it that though as there was a local saying around at that time which had something to do with "growlers " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazlaaar Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 I can't remember what he called it tbh .... but I know he was the only one importing it into the country for carp fishing. I wouldn't of put it past him calling it that though as there was a local saying around at that time which had something to do with "growlers " That's a completely different kind of milk lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillfactor Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 He was that kind of bloke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazlaaar Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 He was that kind of bloke You wouldn't want to leave that fermenting would you lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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