Hair rig tubing

[frogy]

Morning guys, last time I was fishing my mate said I should put a bit of tubing over the windings on the hook of my hair rigs [ the hair was flapping about a bit I must admit haha] so ive had a look on fleabay but they come in different diameters so not sure what size to get? Im using size 8 hooks by the way. Also as an average how long should the hair be? My mate said mine were a bit short but didn't really tell me how long they should be.

Thanks guys.

[Guest Nhawkeye]

If you use size 8 hooks, then shrink tubing is a bit pointless. But, having said that, it also depends  on the pattern of hook being used. Take for example, the Korda wide gape, which is not a bad hook as it goes, and does not need shrink tubing, or any other form of tubing at all.

 

Keeping things basic, lets say your rig is 7 inches in length, tied with a coated hooklink, such as, Kryston Mantis. You can adjust the length of the hair rig, when tying the knotless knot to your size 8 hook. The easiest way to set the length of the hair, is to mount a hookbait on, and then, look for a gap of about 10 mm from the top of the hookbait and the bend of the hook.

 

Once you're happy with the length of the hair, whip on the knotless knot with seven turns; for a size 8 wide gape, seven turns is ideal.

 

Then carry out the "palm test". Place your rig on the palm of your hand, with the bait mounted and hook lying flat next to the edge of your hand. Then, gently drag the rig across your palm, and by the time the hook reaches the other side of the palm of your hand, the hook should turn and take hold.

 

If it does this, then, the rig is working efficiently.

 

If, however, you want a rig with shrink tubing, then, use a size 6 hook, such as the Gardner Incizor. When used "blow back style" this rig is deadly, and takes hold centre of bottom lip every time. 

[newmarket]

Morning si , i tend to use 1.2 mm shrink tube and only use it if i feel the hooking potential can be improved by turning it " inwards".

Many hook patterns these days have that already-turned angle anyway so dont need it imo .

 

As for length of the hair ,i usually start with having about 3/4 of an inch between top of the bait and the hook and then shorten or lengthen it during the session depending on hookholds ( like Nick , if the hookholds are in the scissors or not great it gets lengthened or shortened if the hookholds are too far back) and whether i feel the fish are "getting away with it".

 

Have you ever seen a KD rig si ? No shrink tube and the hair virtually comes off the eye of the hook .

Flapping like a good 'un :)

[newmarket]

I dont agree that tubing is pointless with a size 8 hook i believe it is down to the hook pattern . I'd use it on a size 12 if i thought it might improve the hooking potential .

Also , for what its worth , i dont believe in that palm test ( or thumbnail test for that matter ) .

Hooklength behavior underwater cannot be the same as on your hand .

 

Mind you thats what forums are for , to air differing opinions .

 

Lets see how the thread develops si .

 

Cant understand why your mate would say your hairs are too short and yet offer no explanation or solution ?

[frogy]

Yeah all what your saying makes sense, at the time I had lost about 4 carp on the trot and this was just what my mate said to try. I must admit trying to keep the hair on the curved bit of the hook and so nearer the barb made sense to me but I could be wrong.

[Guest Nhawkeye]

That's what I said. it's down to the pattern being used

[frogy]

To be honest I don't know what the hook pattern was, they were just some size 8's I picked up off fleabay. I mainly use a running rig and fish commercial waters so if anyone could recommend a good hook pattern that would be appreciated

[newmarket]

Gardner muggas for bottom baits , kamasan b175's for pop ups ( bait closer to hookshank )

Easy

[cyborx]

Gardner muggas for bottom baits , kamasan b175's for pop ups ( bait closer to hookshank )

Easy

 

what he said

 

you could always hold the hair on the bend of the hook with about 3mm of shrink tube :idea:

 

 

ignore the line aligner on the eye, thats just my preference :mrgreen:

[Guest Nhawkeye]

There are literally loads of hook patterns available. But, what you have to ensure is using a hook pattern and hooklink that compliment each other. An example of a bad combination is a "chod" hook with a supple braided hooklink. Chod hooks, which is what they are called now, have a wide gape, in-turned point and an out-turned eye. The pattern is ideal for stiff hooklinks, but, when used with a supple braid, can have the effect of "bouncing" in the carp's mouth before taking hold. The old Drennan Boilie Hook and Rod Hutchinson Carp are the same pattern as today's chod hook. And if an angler made the mistake of using Silkworm, or Merlin, which are supple braids, then, the hook would bounce out resulting in either a foul hooking, or a hook pull,

 

Hooks such as the Drennan Super Specialist, which have a slightly down turned eye, can be used with either a stiff link, or a supple braid. These give quite good hook holds, as they have a reasonable gape, a straight point, that is slightly off set of the shank. The size 8 is particularly good for 14mm baits, and you don't need to use shrink tube.

 

One the best hooks though, is the Gardner Incizor, a straight eye, straight shank, and straight point. The size 8 is ideal for bottom baits, and 16 mm pop ups. With these hooks, I just use a standard hair, no tubing, a fox pop up weight placed on the hookilink about quarter of an inch from the hook, which always results in excellent hook holds at the centre of bottom lip. I really don't see the point in using fancy rigs for pop ups, because, that rig is easy to tie and does the job every bit as good as any other pop up rig.

[androoooo]

Frogy....I'm still learning but the hair rig was one of the major step forwards in carp fishing due to the seperation it allowed between hook and bait. So from what I understand having a long hair allows better seperation and makes it more difficult to eject as hook and bait are acting more independently. As a carp tried to blow the bait back out having a good degree of seperation will allow the hook to drop into the bottom of the carps mouth as it tried to blow the bait back out.

 

Popups are different and I fish tight to the shank.

 

I tend to use longish hairs with some form of pva to prevent tangling.

 

 

[Guest Nhawkeye]

Using long hairs, 20 mm plus in length is okay for large carp (30lbs plus), but a no no for small(er) carp. Also, going by my own experience, the chances of "getting done" when using long hairs is far higher, even when a 30 plus comes calling. As a general rule of thumb, a gap of 10mm to 15 mm between the top of the boilie and the bend of the hook provides excellent hook holds, even for the largest of carp.

[newmarket]

Hawk , you sound like a very knowledgable gentleman , helped by years of experience no doubt .

 

Can i take it by "general rule of thumb" with regards to hair length , you mean as a starting point and then shorten or lengthen the hair accordingly accordingly to how your session is going etc ?

Or do you stick to your guidelines rigidly come what may ?

 

Reason i ask is that , in my relatively limited experience , no two carp feed the same way and i certainly couldnt predict it .

 

Unless of course i'd been stalking the same target fish for a considerable period of time of course in which case i may have caught on

[Guest Nhawkeye]

"rule of thumb" Yeah, adjust accordingly. Sorry if I'm being a bit "meh"  mate, I have the flu, or whatever.

 

I feel like crap. That's the general theme of what I'm saying

[salokcinnodrog]

Morning guys, last time I was fishing my mate said I should put a bit of tubing over the windings on the hook of my hair rigs [ the hair was flapping about a bit I must admit haha] so ive had a look on fleabay but they come in different diameters so not sure what size to get? Im using size 8 hooks by the way. Also as an average how long should the hair be? My mate said mine were a bit short but didn't really tell me how long they should be.

Thanks guys.

I must admit that I have often have a flappy hair, being as it is attached to a rig ring that slides freely up and down the hook shank

 

Like Tim says, I play with hair length dependant on where I hook my fish, and hookpulls. Edge of mouth, or hookpull, lengthen it. Deep in mouth then shorten it. Right in centre of bottom lip, perfect length. (the reason for attaching the hair to sliding ring, it means I can play with hair length without cutting rigs apart)

 

I buy my shrink tubing from Maplins usually, the smallest, can't remember what size as I've lost the packet. I don't care that it has tiny printing  on the side as I'm sure the carp can't read what it says when its shrunk down.

 

I prefer Gardner Muggas as my hooks, but Drennan Super Specialists, and many other hooks, can at times be improved with shrink tubing, even hooks with incurved or inturned eyes, as occasionally you still miss some takes with a knotless knot.

[salokcinnodrog]

I deleted my previous post on this thread as I felt I had to quantify some of my comments:

 

 

 

I thought about it, I worked on it, and I came up with the same as I used however long ago I originally put this up, although I have changed the hook pattern. I use the same hook arrangement with a coated braid and a combi rig, although the only difference between the two is the choice of coated braid or combi:

 

 

 

These rigs can be used for snowman, pop-up or bottom baits with little change.

 

The hair length on a pop-up is shortened, in fact the bait is tied in a loop and then attached to the rig ring tight to the hook shank. I then use the knot on the combi-rig or the end of the stripped section to attach putty to for the pop-up height.

 

With the snowman I put the bait in the loop and then tie the hair at the length I think is right, so that the bottom bait of the two will be on the hair.

 

As for a plain bog standard bottom bait, the hair is tied on with a standard loop and then hair stop is used to hold it in place.

 

The advantage of the rig ring is that I can change the hair length to suit my fishing, rather than break it all down to change it.

 Also, you don't have to use shrink tubing, a small silicon tubing will work the same, and can also be used to slide down the shank and hold the hair in place. As a rule of thumb, if I do have a hair down the hookshank, then I tend to have it leave the shank around halfway between the point and the end of the barb.

 

It may be worth having a hunt for the pic I put up about hair and hook separation from the eye, the shank and the bend.

[Guest Nhawkeye]

I like how the phrase "rule of thumb" has become en vogue lol

 

Although, it seems as though I don't use shrink tube, I do, but, only for hooks size 6 and larger hooks (4 is about the biggest I go anyway). As I said in a previous post, if shrink tube is used on a size 6 Gardner Incizor, for example, and used blow back style with small piece of silicon tube on the shank, then, that hooking arrangement is deadly. I can honestly say, that with that hooking arrangement, I have never encountered a hook pull. The hook takes hold centre of bottom lip every time.

 

However, this hooking arrangement seems to be very poor for the "Longshank" version of the Gardner Incizor. So, for that particular pattern I will use the D rig (notice capital D!) in conjunction with a pop up, and that hooking arrangement proves to work very well; especially when using fluorocarbon as the hooklink. 

 

Also, if I am using a Drennan Super Specialist in size 6, then, I will use shrink tube as a line aligner, but not blow back style. I have found with the size 8 super specialist, the a line aligner set up does not always give a secure hook hold.