Turnip

It is a pitiful shame, Ian. Gerry has spent an absolute fortune on making the lake what it is. Always the good guys/gals that seem to end up having the rough end of the stick.

Wow!!! Cheers Andy. Bad shame. Gerry is such a nice guy too. Hope the fishery recovers and there is no truth to the rumours.

Does anybody have a time frame of when Gerry intends to open the lake back up?, and did he close it for spawning, or is there any truth in the rumour I heard over the weekend that he intends to put cabins up and use the lake as a holiday venture?

Moulicent looks a cracker, Mufty, and from what I have just read about the place from people who continually go back year after year - you should have a cracking time if you choose to fish it.

Abbey Lakes? Looks a cracking venue, and a nice head of Carp, too. Somebody I know has fished it several times, and speaks very highly of the place, but with you wanting the Lake to yourself....not much chance of that unless you happen to be from Saudi.

What size carp/moggies? are you hoping to catch, Mufty? Runs water or something challenging?

The only time I use salt is with chips or on the steps when it's snowing Many anglers use a lot of salt in a mix, and many a good debate has been held due to it. I personally don't like to use it. I have in the past, particularly Sea Salt that I ground-up, but I don't use it now. (not in a boilie mix, at least) It may be a way for you to cure your boilie though, nm. Roll your boilies, air dry them for an hour or so and then encase them in salt. I would use Rock/Sea salt (I wouldn't use table salt), but then you would also have to take into account the boilie taking on an amount of salt that you can't account for?.

Hi Luke, My friend, who lives in Casino (his back garden is the Richmond) is going to be rolling boilies. Fortunately, his lovely wife can source all of the ingredients required to make a mix, and with her job, going through the veterinary practice means cheaper prices for product, thankfully. My other very good friend lives in Kingaroy, and along with his sons and family members, are wanting to do similar. Rolling the baits is not an issue. Premises is not an issue, and no, it isn't a case of today the town, tomorrow the world , but more for 'pin' money for my friends, and their friends, and if their friends mates want some, then all the better.

nm - the recipe you are using - are you adding any form of salt. Would dropping the amount of Yeast be beneficial, or would it work against you?

Ross - the magical number is 40 degrees. Not for all, as the range is between 40 and 60 degrees, but 40 is the starting point. As for Nash, nm - they have just (relatively recently) spent £350'ish thousand on coming in to line with EU guidelines. Somewhere in amongst the vast amount of money will be a pressure cooker or a vacuum bath that doesn't quite get to 40 degrees, I imagine.

nm - how about - mixing as you would normally, likewise as with the rolling - leave the boilies (misnomer) to air cure for 24, even 48 hours in a dry area and then freeze. (If it were myself doing it, I may even look at rolling the almost cured balls in something like liver powder, garlic powder. I would even consider spirulina.) The down side, I guess - you would have to take the 'dusting' powder into consideration with the main ingredients. Freezing at this stage will not obviously denature/kill the enzymes, and the chances are, I imagine, that the sugars and salts would be doing their tango and foxtrot by now and visible on the skin. Perfect freezing time, imo, of course.

Better to have tried than not tried at all, nm. Everybody has a different outlook on bait making, nm, and everybody is wrong. Nature of the beast! ,... and when I stop learning, there will be a man reading from a book leaning over me, pleading with some beardy guy to allow me admittance and to forgive my sins. Until then - I want to learn by my mistakes and advise given. I'm not greedy, but I do want to learn it all. :mrgreen: At present, I have no chance of testing one against the other, but it would be interesting to test out which Yeast 'boilie', or in your case, 'Steamie' would come out tops if the same mix was put together with 1 slight adjustment,... Brewers yeast in one batch and Torula yeast in another.

#59 & #60, nm - Do you still have the broken up boilie, nm? If so - what is the innards like now? Tbh - wont know unless you try them out if it works, but why wouldn't they. You've obviously thunk about it. What was the mix? Did you notice any difference when rolling it? - and how long did you set them aside to 'prove' before rolling/boiling?

So I see. ,... and in response, I have to inform you a),... are you sure it is legal,...b),...will it hurt,...c),...will you still love me in the morning? :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

I would be reluctant to use the yeast on the basis that I don't know enough about the reactions that would/could occur with the ingredients I would possibly use during 'fermentation'. ie,.Blood Powder (lysine up or down?). (I'm a scaredy cat, scaredy cat, sittin on the door mat ) I would also look at alternatives - oh, I would (Deja vu re: enzymes) - Garlic powder! That said - the shop bought bait (boilie) which does contain the yeast additive is Goofies Danglies, so it obviously works.

,... OK, I for one will take your view on board, carpmachine. Now we know your opinion, would it be too much to ask that you leave the thread alone, by way of not commenting again so as those of us which wish to learn have, a) sanctuary, and b) those of us that wish to learn (because we don't know it all) can have a place without ignorance and attention seeking to ask our relevant questions without receiving irrelevant replies. Thank you for your anticipated acceptance of the request. Available in Large Print and Braille.

We appear to be singing from the same hymn sheet, nm. Certainly reading from the same one, at least. I, too, struggle to put my meanings in to a structure that makes sense. It makes sense to read it back, then I post, and see my errors. Usually too late to edit it by then, and to re-type or to re-arrange the post is often not time permissible. Anyway,... The answer to your question you first asked - does 'ph' play a part. I answered that the best I could at the time. I had written so much more in the previous attempts to post, that when it came to posting my final effort - my fingers were screaming for a rest and so much I wanted to say was omitted. As for the effect which enzymes play, and your open question regarding 'choice of ingredients dictate' (not sic) - then I would have to say yes, to my mind thought at least, although it would appear to contradict my thoughts in the first reply . Allow clarification here - I am ugly, not stupid. For myself to suggest that my choice of ingredients are better than A.N.Other's would be stupid. However, as is the ingredients that I choose to use, and the way in which I prepare them for end result - allows, in my mind at least - to retain the enzymes that the bait recipe was designed. (PLEASE NOTE - I now outsource my bait rolling, so the way in which I prepared the same ingredients to get end result has changed), however, I still feel I, or the rolling company, can retain the 'goodness' that I would like to think I am feeding. I know that the boilies will be heated longer and that the enzymes will be denatured to a degree, but I can ride with that. The recipe can be found here somewhere, and when you analyse it, although quantity isn't given - you will see that a lot of thought was given to the inclusion of certain ingredients over alternatives for this very reason.

nm, and hopefully Androoooo,... re: enzyme(s). I mentioned it earlier, but that was in passing, but as an open question - Is there/what alternative(s) anything you would use other than pineapple to activate the protease and amylase?

You've learnt that Conjecture doesn't make you a magician: Incongruence has nothing to do with being able to pee properly, and Hyperbole doesn't come with Spaghetti. :razz:

It is times like this, that I wish I had the wit and the wisdom of a 'pink' snooker ball. (eyebrows optional) Androoooo - Now that, imo, would be a chuffin shame, also in my opinion, a great loss to this message board. I hope you change your mind. I would love to have the opportunity to learn from your knowledge.

Shame on you for discombobulating a Pork Chop! You should know it is impossible to edjumikayte Pork! Vicar, you've been promoted. Don't suppose you want more tea? :mrgreen: Androoooo - Pineapple. Got to be pineapple, unless of course you have managed to utilise synsepalum dulcificum, which I'm sure you will agree - would really ficum up!

You are not neanderlithic, Tim. Being an 'ammer, your arms are longer. :razz: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Hi nm, For the third time of trying to reply to you. (Reply disappears when pressing post. Hopefully this works) The ph reading will very rarely be the same from 1 month to the next (not a truly accurate reading), but, I certainly accept that it plays a major part in attraction - obviously dependant on topography, depth, size, temperature, fish mass, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate etc, etc, - and I am also a firm believer in that a perfect bait will never be produced by human. How can it be possible. With so many connotations available on a specific lake, in say, Birmingham - it would be utter madness to think the fish in a lake the same size in the South of France would require the same diet in the month of May? . As research carried out shows, water with a higher ph was/is detrimental to fish. It slows the brain of a Carp down. (If you read some of the replies here, you'll soon see who has been drinking water with a ph of 36 ) With the slowing down in mind, and the benefits that Glutaminic has as a dietary 'requirement', personally I class it as the most important part of the puzzle. It certainly outweighs my concerns of ph change. As with the results I posted above - the research was carried out on Common Carp by feeding a single source, highly digestible, Fishmeal diet. (Nose, Watanabe) What I can say with *certainty* - a bait with a correct balance of Amino Acid will always be better for a Carp over a period of time/adjustment than a bait that contains 'quick fix' ingredients. Regardless of water ph. As an example to my thought process Certain times of the year, especially if we, here in the UK, are lucky enough to have hot, decent weather early on in the year, could see Carp spawn more than once. With spawning comes the inevitable injury - be it, as we humans would call it - physical as well as mental stress. Feeding a bait which contains the Amino's to help the Carp recover from the ordeal, in my opinion, has nothing to do with ph of the water. However, feeding a bait whereby the ingredients contain the Amino Acid to help recover, plays a vital part. Also, just as I mentioned Glutaminic - Cysteine is another AA that, personally, I believe plays a major part. The quicker it comes out - the quicker the proteins are working - the more bait the Carp is eating - the closer it is to the fish taking the hook-bait. In short, nm - I believe the difference that ph makes is vast - but I also believe that Carp are clever. *certainty* - I am certain - I am confident in my appraisal - it does not make my appraisal correct.

Condolences to you, Nige.

Horses for courses, so they say. I use shrink in almost every presentation, and at times, even doubling it up on the hook if the presentation dictates. It also makes for excellent booming if you're using braid hook-link.