carpepecheur

It does not happen to me very often but when it does it can be difficult to see and retrieve at distance. I attach a small float and foot or two of line to the spomb and then use a weighted treble hook attached to floats which I cast across the spomb to retrieve it.

This is one of my favourites of my local lake 3 miles away. It was taken using a cheap camera dangling from a kite.

I described an idea for a rig here in July. I have since been testing it. I was disappointed to miss the very first run I had using this method. Since then I have had a further 5 runs, all resulting in good fish. It is outfishing any other rig I use except when I use giant maize (for which this rig is not really suited)

Now you sound like a Viking! I would not like to argue with Kevin Madocks Nick. I bet he was told his hair rig was "overcomplicated" when he first publicised it! From what I observe looking at under water footage and from my own tests using a suck and blow tube in a tank, when a carp goes into eject mode, it gags rather than spits. It is not like when you spit out a mouthful of foul tasting liquid it is more like when you gag on a fish bone. (I hope that makes sense!). The bait is pushed out with all the water that was sucked in and the hook stays underneath the bait which interferes with it making a hookhold. Like you, I used to think that a longer hair would increase hooking chances but I have changed my mind as a result of the tests I have done. So now in the words of Isak Walton "first catch your carp" (to prove the point)

Some very interesting responses here. Gary, I understand what you say about a carp's mouth being sensitive to the hook length. With regard to the rig in question here, all I would say is that it is no more spooky than any other rig. Regarding the rig you alluded to, I will later PM you an old idea of mine on similar lines and perhaps we can compare notes (am away for a few days in the Carmargue at moment) Liam, I think the tight line versus slack line is another (interesting) discussion. I am only thinking of using this rig with a bolt lead at the moment. Regarding hair length, I disagree with you. If it is too long, the bristle will only turn the hook underneath the bait. I believe, if the bait is tight against the hook, the whole bait will turn leaving the hook in an aggressive position. Salokcinnodrog (is that Welsh for something?), I googled "swimmer rig" but that seems to refer to having the rig ring on a D just above the hook eye. As far as I can work out, the "bristle rig" seems to be designed to make sure the hook comes out the same way it went in. I have messed about with tube and a cross bristle to act like an anchor but that is not what I am trying to achieve here. I am trying to get the carp to turn the hook through 90 degrees when it sucks in so that when it blows out the hook is alongside the boilie (and not underneath it) so that it has a good chance of catching hold. If, on top of that, all of the bristle goes inside the mouth, there is the added bonus of it being more difficult to eject. I am still trying to find fault in that logic.

Overcomplicated does not mean it does not work. I do not think it is over complicated anyway as I explained in my last answer above I have no interest in what “known” anglers do except when they give me ideas. It goes without saying that you need good watercraft to be successful but that does not excuse you from not using the best end rig you can. Gaz said “in all honesty there probably aint a rig out there that works how we think it does” and I totally agree with that. I have watched hours of video where carp spit the bait out and now use a suction device to test my rigs in a tank. The first lesson I learned was that my favourite rigs did not work the way I thought they did. That is how I ended up with me current suggestion. Liam hit the nail on the head when he said “If i dont strike and wait for the lead to hook the fish they spit the bait vout 9 times out of ten”. Exactly, that is my point. I want to change those odds to 8 out of 10 or even 7 out of 10. I appreciate your comments guys. The question I have is, “is there anything wrong in my reasoning how I think it will work?”

I have a habit of reinventing the wheel. Does the rig you used have a name?. I agree with you about the length of the bristle. I will need to experiment. I totally agree with the KISS principle but this is a standard stiff rig with the hook link cut short and a supple length added. Why does it look terrible? Yes it is very easy to tie but your last words are so true. You must have faith. As far as I am concerned the jury is still out

Jerome Moisand has produced and watched many hours of underwater carp videos and has come to the conclusion that anti eject rigs do not work. He argues that the force of water when the carp blows out just pushes everything in front of it. I did some tests by sucking and blowing water into a glass tube testing various rigs and came to a similar conclusion. I tried to find a way to ACTIVELY turn the hook when a carp sucks in and came up with the idea of "The Spinner" which has already been described here I was very disappointed when I missed my very first run using "The Spinner" but since then it has proven to be an effective hooker. However there are some reservations regarding it. It has been suggested that it provides the possibility of hooking outside the mouth before it is sucked in. I have never seen this in practise or in tank tests but the worry still remains. The other reservation is that, every time a new bait is needed a fresh rig has to be tied. This can be a bit of a pain. In an effort to prove Jerome wrong, I came up with a second ACTIVE hook turning rig which I call "The Turner" The following diagram shows how to tie it:- The next diagram shows "The Turner" in use. First a bait is mounted on a loop of dental floss and held in place with a boilie stop. The two ends of the floss are then used to tie the bait onto the rig ring on the hook. The idea is that as the carp sucks in the bait, the bristle comes against the lip of the carp and starts to turn. There is little likely hood of the point penetrating on entry as it enters bend first. Once inside the mouth, the hook is in an aggressive hooking position when the carp blows out. But in addition to this, if the end of the bristle also goes inside the mouth, it will stop the carp easily ejecting the hook. This is very much at the idea stage as I have yet to test it in the lake. I fish a clean bottom, with my bait inside a PVA bag so tangles on casting are not an issue. This is my first attempt at tying the rig. I would appreciate any helpful comments.

Yes you are certainly right. I forgot to say that I fish almost exclusively with my bait in a pva bag specifically to avoid tangles.

I must put my hand up for re-inventing the wheel it was not Cobelyn's fault. I am often accused of re-inventing the wheel but who knows, I may find a better shape one day. I think you are referring to something called The Weighted Drop Rig. I have been unable to find it on the net (and am too tight to buy his videos!). Could you manage a sketch of how it works? I used to be a fan of putting a shot on the bend of the hook until I started testing them in my "think tank". I believe the idea started with Frank Warwick. The weight seems to help the hook drop out of the mouth rather than into it. It depends how vertical the carp is when he blows out. Anyway the point you make about outside hook holds is a good one and I have been thinking about it. If the weight between the hook and boilie is increased so that it just sinks the boilie, the length of line between the bolie and the second weight can be adjusted. The longer that distance is, the further the boilie goes into the mouth before it starts to spin. The important thing is that on sucking in, the hook is shielded by the boilie and outside hook holds should be avoided. I am planning to give it its first test this evening. Now if only the carp will co-operate!

Yes I saw the smilies but haven't worked out how to use them (wink smiley here)

I tie my rigs from scratch every time. I rarely reuse them. The boilie goes on first before tying the hook. I do put a small rubber float stop above the boilie to stop the hook slipping down. No I have not fished it yet because I only dreamed it up today. Tomorrow will be the first test. I do not keep schtum about any of my ideas. My local lake is so rarely fished the chances of anyone competing with the same rig is about a million to one. I prefer to share ideas so that I can get feedback from more experienced anglers and hopefully make improvements. So all feedback is gratefully accepted.

OK the title is just a pun on my latest rig called The Spinner. I recently bought a fish tank from Cash Converters to try and understand how well my rigs were working. To try and emulate the sucking and blowing of a carp I fitted a transparent tube with a piston to generate a suck and blow. I have been doing some tests with the tube and have learned a lot. Most set ups suck the boilie in with the hook underneath and then, when it blows out, the boilie can push against the hook taking it out the mouth of the carp. Most rigs try and find a way to increase the chances of a hold but suffer by various degrees from this problem. I have come up with a solution called “The Spinner”. The small shot is not quite heavy enough to sink the pop up boilie. The larger shot is just heavy enough to hold the pop up on the bottom. It hangs in the water as shown. When the carp sucks in, the drag from the larger shot causes the boilie to spin so that the hook turns upwards in the carps mouth. The carp starts to blow out but the hook is now clear of the boilie looking for a hook hold. In fact the spinning action generated could actually set the hook but that is only conjecture on my part. I have made a crude video which shows the rig in position, then being sucked and blown in real time, then in slow motion, then some step by step frame shots. The quality is poor because I do not have a proper video camera but it is easy to see the hook spinning to find its hold. Watch it here:-

Sorry Ross my "Pocket Rig" was designed for weed free situations.

Being hard up I make my own zig rigs. Not only does this save money but, in my opinion, it works better. This is a photo of my zig rig ready to cast. I typically fish in 7 metres of water and I like a distance of 3 metres between hook and float so that the latter does not spook the carp. Note how small and neat it is to cast. I call it the "Pocket Zig" The next photo shows how it goes together The main line, coming from the left, passes through the eye of a lead weight, then through the eye of the float and then through a rubber float stop passing on to the hook 3 metres away. With the weight on the bottom the main line is released until the float is seen on the surface. At this point, all 3 metres of the hook link is on the surface. I now retrieve three metres of line and only the hook is now just on the surface. Retrieve a bit more line equivalent to the depth at which you want to fish the zig et voila. On the retrieve the float comes against the top eye of the rod and further pulling slides the float against the stop towards the hook. This means you do not have to struggle with 3 metres of line between you and the carp if you do hook a decent fish. The float is homemade from a wine cork, table-tennis ball, and wooden barbeque skewer stuck together with "no nails". To get ready to cast, wind a short bit of pva tape around the cork bit of the float IN A CLOCKWISE DIRECTION . Then wind the 3 metres of hooklink around the cork bit of the float IN AN ANTICLOCKWISE DIRECTION. Then simply nick the point of the hook into the PVA to hold it place. When the tape melts after casting, the hook link unwinds. I hope someone else finds this useful?

I posted this link on another forum ... When the boilie is blown out the hook trails behind in the mouth.

Could I ask a question about the "hand test"? I have seen the videos where various rigs are dragged over the heel of the palm to demonstrate how the hook will behave. It would seem to me that this only demonstrates what is happening when the line is being pulled i.e. when there is tension in the line. This will happen when the boilie is being sucked in or if the carp is backing away. If the carp is just mouthing the bait or is blowing it out, the feature demonstrated by the hand test is surely irrelevant?

Good thinking, that had not occurred to me. However I have been using a shot on the hook for a year now and have never lost one. I twist a short piece of electrical wire on the start of the bend (pointed end) and nip the shot on that. I believe it makes the hook drop better towards the carp's bottom lip and helps turn the hook point down. I believe the original idea is attributed to Frank Warwick. I am not familiar with the mechanics of fish biology but would think it unlikely that a shot would be swallowed during a fight. Regarding hooklength, could I suggest trying a very short link to a hermit rig. I have found this effective. I definitely agree with your one change at a time idea. Good luck

It is an idea I have just started working on (I just coined that phrase). I always put a BB shot on the bend of the hook to help and yes I do use it with a fixed lead or to be more precise a Hermit rig. You are not being daft .... just thinking.

I would suggest that once the boilie is in the carp's mouth it has no longer any purpose. In fact from that point on it is a liability. It can be blown out, pushing the hook with it or, if a hook hold has started, it can suck/blow on the boilie to try and release it. This may be happening in your case. My suggestion is The Breakaway Boilie. Whatever your rig, replace the boilie stop with a sliding float stop (or even no stop at all). When any pressure is put on the boilie it slides off the hair and can do no further damage leaving the hook free to do its job. This will only work, of course, if you cast out your hook bait inside a pva bag as I tend to do.