tonybranno

What i do is tie some dental floss onto the rig ring with a grinner knot. Put the pop up into the loop of dental floss and pull down tight then cut the excess floss off then blob the knot with a lighter. Easy peasy

When the bait gets sucked in, in my mind the hair will straighten out and the hook will follow behind, like its being towed by the bait.

This is where a lot of us switch off And you will sit there for hours and hours, even days, waiting for a run that may not happen and you cannot be bothered to do a 2 minute mathematical calculation. Shame on you Tony:oops: PMSL

Ive seen this diagram in a book fella, im now racking my brains to think of which one Frank, As regards to the 360. Ive heard nothing but bad points on this due to the hook, double hooking fish. I think its something to do with cos the angle that the swivel creates on the hook eye. Have you had any experience of this yourself? Now i do admit i dont know the ins and outs of this rig at all cos im not sure of what situation it would be needed in my fishing. Can you shed any light on this at all?

I apologise if I read you wrong. Absolutley no apologies needed on your part Frank at all

This is where a lot of us switch off

Ive heard of it in the past and ive just googled it and TBH i would never use something like that cos i really dont think that you need to. Once again, i feel that you are just confusing the issue and pulling out some rig that will hinder your chances of a capture, not improve it. If ive got the correct set up, if you get a fish and you hook it, all the pressure from the fish going one way, and you pulling the other, is centred on a very small rig ring on the pop up. IMO that is not gonna withstand much pressure before it gives way. If you are fishing for big fish in heavy weed, then i seriously doubt you will land anything TBH. Remember..... your rig is only the strongest at its weakest point. And IMO, that rig ring is a seriously weakened point

And thats the joys of fishing Nige. Everyone has their own ideas on how to tackle a certain situation The reason i said use a longer hair is for confidence reasons on the carps part. Im not sure what book it was but i read that a certain angler knew that carp mouthed the bait before confidently taking it. So my thoughts where to do the same. Let the fish mouth the bait which would act the same, and feel the same as the freebies (with no hook close to it) then let it take the bait back once it thought it was ok. I feel that once a bait has been 'mouthed' and it spells danger, then it is left alone. That is why you hear of so many anglers saying "I had fish all over me, but i couldnt get a take. And when i checked my baited area all that was left was my hookbait". I think thats the reason why. But hey, i maybe talking cobblers as well But to be honest, something as simple as the fish not approaching the rig the right way could give it cause to not take the bait perfectly to give a strikable run. Ive said it before..... there are so many variables in fishing that im amazed we catch at all.

Frank, if you think i spoke out of turn then please (and everyone else for that matter) accept my apologies. It wasnt meant has you obviously read it. I was merely trying to add to an extremely interesting subject with my points of view

If you have got the luxury of seeing fish feed in crystal clear water then you have definitely got a better understanding of how to catch them certain fish on that certain area. But lets be honest, if you are fishing at range of anything more than marginal yards, then its gonna be difficult, if not impossible to see exactly what they are getting away with. Personally i have seen fish feed and caught fish while watching them tear up my marginal baited spot, but unfortunately for me the water wasn’t crystal clear and all I saw was shadows ghosting in, upending to feed then ghost out again. But luckily for me my current venue which is weed infested and gin clear hopefully will give me the opportunity to see fish feed in close quarters some time this summer, but like I said, I still don’t believe that you can see exactly whats going on unless you are fishing very close in. Once again I presume you are talking about close in, margin fishing here cos like I said before, anything further out than that you would have real difficulty seeing what was happening anyway. In the case of the gravel bottomed lake though I would make my end tackle as subtle as possible And make my bait act as natural as the freebies by counterbalancing it. Also shortening the hooklink could help along with lengthening the hair to make sure you have a much greater degree of separation between the hook and bait. To be honest, on the silty venue where even close in you are not gonna see much at all, I would experiment and try the same as above, but cos you cant see the carps reaction to anything, then i feel its gonna be trial and error. Either way, I feel pulling out a rig that’s all whistles and bells rings here and swivels there is just gonna hinder your chances of a take. I wouldn’t be at all confident of doing something l;ike that. But thats just my opinion.

And thats why i feel its best to keep it simple. My train of thought is to try and keep your end tackle and your hooklength as inconspicuous as possible. The more things you add to that, the less fish you are going to catch. I think its simple and so obvious. Ive said it before and i will continue to say it..... you will find that these "super duper" rigs may have been designed for a certain scenario, in a certain lake for a certain fish. No wonder that the newcomer to carp angling can get there head in a mess worrying about something so easy as the last 9 inches of there end tackle. I blame the comics for that.

You guys make me laugh Lets be honest, the whole thread is based on a hypothetical question cos no one will know with 100% certainty that the fish you are targetting in your particular venue pick up and drop your bait immediately. The only way to know this is to don scuba gear and watch the fish at length for a considerable time to gauge your findings. So what is the answer? Pulling out stock photos of rigs with rings here, loops there, swivels on that bit is not the way to go, you are merely confusing the issue and making things way more complicated than it actually is. I will tell you my to answer the question of the thread and i will gladly hear your views if you think im talking rubbish..... Get the fish on a good bait that they have confidence in eating and a simple knotless knot will out catch anything that you have suggested here. But hey, thats just my opinion

Ok mate heres my twopenneth. Your set up sounds ok but i would like to know what size of fish are in your venue? If they are only singles to low doubles then i would consider dropping your hooksize down to a size 10. You say the bottom is silt so in truth i would drop the coated hooklink altogether and use standard braid of around 8-10 inches in length? Also im not sure of the tactic of using pellets with a pop up. If your baited hook is off the bottom, then why use pellets which will sink? I know this tactic has supposed to have caught loads of fish, but i think that the pellets have been taken first and then the pop up will be taken last..... maybe some hours later, so in truth you may have been fishing with a single hookbait for the majority of the time. I only use pop ups when im using them as single hookbaits or over a scattering of boilies. And when i say scattering, i mean over a wide area of about 20 yards square.

One question..... How do you know that the fish are picking up your hookbait and dropping it immediately?

AKA Ransome Road. Its on a syndicate mate and its just been taken over. Ive heard that there are homeless people actually living at the lake but they keep themselves to themselves. Give Chris a chance to work his magic and this place should be a great place to angle in the future. Ive heard its a very pretty venue as well, but ive not yet had a look but i will soon.

If you actually read the instruction with the picture it will tell you why the ring on the shank is used.....

Zander i know what you mean about fishing in weed. My syndicate is chokka with the stuff in places and its a steep learning curve for me also regarding presentation. Got some ideas to try this weekend though and im well looking forward to it.

Fair point and i agree with that mate. Thing is though my syndicate has got me well and truly by the nads so at the moment all my thoughts are on that and its occupants. But considering zigs do work on there very well, it shouldnt be long before something picks one up if i experiment. Like i said, im not putting too much emphasis into using zigs just yet but i will try one if and when the conditions dictate. All i need is one take mate then i will be sorted, confidence will then be there. Once again mate its down to confidence. If your set up works for you then great carry on with it and keep hauling, im just trying to explain to you my thoughts on it, thats all. Now that is interesting. Everytime you read about using a zig, most articles advocate the use of a light semi fixed lead but obviously the fish has a VERY long way to travel before you get an indication. And if the fish doesnt move the lead at all, then you will have no way of knowing if you have got a take anyway. But can running leads be used in weed? I was told thats a complete no no for the safety aspect. The only reservations of using flouro for zigs is that its too heavy. On short lengths, you may get away with it and your bait might be bouyant enough, but on a longer hooklength i can see it causing you problems.

Yes i see what you are trying to explain but just remember. That small bit of foam is holding up a hook plus maybe upto a 10 foot length of mono hooklink. So to think that your hook is gonna be positioned "exactly" like that when you are using mono, down turned eyed hooks and your foam positioned half way along the shank and not on the bend is asking a bit too much mate and i dont agree with your explanation. When its out in the lake i still think that the hook shank could be positioned more horizontally than you think (maybe even with the hook point lower than the eye) and the only way to be absolutely sure that it isnt is to don scuba gear and have a look PS, i dont do pastie bashing either

Well the very best of luck then fella, it would be great to see some pics early next week

Just to let you know Zander, you are tightening up on the mono hooklink yourself. You may find that once you are actually using the zig on the bank, that the hook doesnt sit exactly the way you are showing there cos the foam can only put so much tension in the mono hooklink. Once again though, its a method that does deserve some experimentation to compare results and over the summer i will have 1 rod on a zig just to try and gain some confidence in the method.

Jez, is Trench the venue you was talking about on the Merrington social? I remember you saying that the weed was that bad, even a 3 ounce lead wouldnt get through the it.

Like i said i have never caught a fish on a zig but i do prefer using a size 10 Korda Choddy hook because the baited hook sits perfectly IMO. I would NEVER used an inturned eye with a mono hooklink because you are closing the gape of the hook which will make it harder for it to take hold.

I also tie the majority of mine on the bankside now. I will tie a couple up at home and put them in the wallet just to get me started when i first arrive at the venue, but if things change, or i need to adjust something, then out comes the materials and i can tie one there and then to suit the situation. Its much better that way IMO.

Dont fall into the trap of thinking that you need loads of rigs. Stick to 2 or 3 which should cover all of your fishing situations and get your confidence in them and i guarantee that you can take them to any water knowing full well that you can and do catch on them. That way you can save all the hard work for location and watercraft which is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr more important.