alternative to lead core

[levigsp]

As noknot said you do not need a leader for a chod to work.

"Safezone leaders are expensive" they might be but there are leaders exactly the same for a fraction of the price, but why buy them if not needed, they certainly dont do what it says on the tin

I know of leaders that are far softer, heavyer than leadcore etc, BUT I WILL NOT recomend them,because sooner or later I will have it on my conscience when someone missuses them and kills a fish.

[moorsey]

As noknot said you do not need a leader for a chod to work.

"Safezone leaders are expensive" they might be but there are leaders exactly the same for a fraction of the price, but why buy them if not needed, they certainly dont do what it says on the tin

I know of leaders that are far softer, heavyer than leadcore etc, BUT I WILL NOT recomend them,because sooner or later I will have it on my conscience when someone missuses them and kills a fish.

 

I think that you will also see a report in Carp-talk and on the forums on Wednesday showing a fish that was wound in attached to a leader which was not lead core. The fish was tethered and DEAD.

[levigsp]

Yes Keith and something I should have said in my post.

And lets hope the angling trade takes notice of the photo's, and well done Simon for haveing the guts to publish.

 

 

The more I see and read the more I realise about the inherent dangers of various bits and pieces of tackle commonly used by carp anglers and its about time it was shown up for what it is, a money spinner that ends the life of a carp.

[smalljon]

Can any one help i want to start usind a flurocarbon leader and im not sure of the best knot or the safest way to attach it?

[salokcinnodrog]

Firstly, do you absolutely need to use a Leader?

 

Please have a read of these:

 

https://forum.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=38886

https://forum.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=32598

https://forum.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=39794

 

The bottom one contains a link to CarpTalk online and the article which shows a fish that was found extremely dead attached to a Leader that had been badly constructed, and had twisted and kinked, preventing a bead sliding off.

 

Any Leader needs to be made so that lead releases and the Carp can eject the hook. So it is probably best to use a Running Lead set-up with Fluoro leaders.

 

https://forum.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=32234&highlight=fluorocarbon

https://forum.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=38614&highlight=fluorocarbon

 

 

If you do decide that you need a fluorocarbon then why not use a Mainline rather than a leader? Have a search for P-line, there are a couple of threads about it.

 

Knots:

https://forum.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=32236

https://forum.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=25551

[smalljon]

cool nice one for that. Im becoming less and less of a fan of leaders the more i read and think about them. I love my addrenaline and love my p line just wonderd if i could have the best of both or do you think addrenaline straight through is more than good enough?

[moorsey]

cool nice one for that. Im becoming less and less of a fan of leaders the more i read and think about them. I love my addrenaline and love my p line just wonderd if i could have the best of both or do you think addrenaline straight through is more than good enough?

 

More than good enough mate. Whichever lake you decide to fish simply work out whether you really need a leader and if you decide that you don't need one don't use one. They are far from essential in most situations.

Keith

[andy1977]

Sorry to hijack the post but I feel this is important. Do you feel that without using some form of leader be it tubing or korda style leaders you run the risk of lifting scales on the fishes sides. IF and it's a big if leadcore and other type of leaders are used properly then they are of great use to us. Education of people will stop all the needless death of fish.

[stoogi]

Sorry to hijack the post but I feel this is important. Do you feel that without using some form of leader be it tubing or korda style leaders you run the risk of lifting scales on the fishes sides. IF and it's a big if leadcore and other type of leaders are used properly then they are of great use to us. Education of people will stop all the needless death of fish.

 

I use mono straight through & i don't recall ever lifting a scale. Should it happen, i have the Klinic on standby.

 

Besides, i think that the occasional scale lift is preferable to a tethered fish.

[andy1977]

Sorry to hijack the post but I feel this is important. Do you feel that without using some form of leader be it tubing or korda style leaders you run the risk of lifting scales on the fishes sides. IF and it's a big if leadcore and other type of leaders are used properly then they are of great use to us. Education of people will stop all the needless death of fish.

 

I use mono straight through & i don't recall ever lifting a scale. Should it happen, i have the Klinic on standby.

 

Besides, i think that the occasional scale lift is preferable to a tethered fish.

 

 

It was just something that I wanted to know, I do agree with your point, 100% about the tethered fish.

[andy1977]

The only way I learn is by asking

[moorsey]

Ask away Andy it's the only way that we all learn. I have used mono/fluoro straight through on light running rigs for about ten years and honestly can't ever remember seeing scales lifted by it.

[jemsue5]

Do you recall lifting scales when using mono for floater/zig fishing as i never have so you wont have any more problems using it straight through on your standard rigs.

[andy1977]

I've got a vauge thought rummbling round in my head that I have had this happen to me years ago. It was just something I wanted to have cleared up.

[levigsp]

Hi

I have to admit that I have lifted scales with mono.

Not often but to say I haven’t would be a lie.

Its been the bigger mirrors and for some strange reason often when hooked close to the bank/margin.

Frank

[andy1977]

Hi

I have to admit that I have lifted scales with mono.

Not often but to say I haven’t would be a lie.

Its been the bigger mirrors and for some strange reason often when hooked close to the bank/margin.

Frank

 

Do you feel that this would still be a problem with florocarbon leaders, or do you think the thickness would be enough to stop this?

[moorsey]

Hi

I have to admit that I have lifted scales with mono.

Not often but to say I haven’t would be a lie.

Its been the bigger mirrors and for some strange reason often when hooked close to the bank/margin.

Frank

 

In which case Frank, it could easily be the hook link that has lifted the scales and not the main line. If you think of the angles of the line with a fish taking off hard from under your feet the lead is likely to have been above it but with the hook link against its flank.

[levigsp]

Do you feel that this would still be a problem with florocarbon leaders, or do you think the thickness would be enough to stop this?

 

I genuinely think the thicker the line the less likelihood there is of this happening and the fact a lot of anglers fish with heavy line nowadays helps.

 

In which case Frank, it could easily be the hook link that has lifted the scales and not the main line. If you think of the angles of the line with a fish taking off hard from under your feet the lead is likely to have been above it but with the hook link against its flank.

Keith I will be honest and say I never really gave that a thought but I doubt it.

If it were the hooklink it would surely effect the smaller carp, as there would be more likelihood of a long hooklink reaching their sides.

You have caught enough big carp to realize that a short/standard hooklink

will not reach the flank.

My theory is that the scales are larger on the bigger fish and there is more likelihood of the line slipping under them.

You will no doubt recall that I stated I use leaders in the margins for free lining, since doing this I have not had a problem.

This could be coincidence though because as I said it was not a common occurrence.

However you will be pleased to know due to our discussions on leaders I have re-thought my rigs for this season, and I will no longer use leaders for this.

I will try heavy fluro mainline instead.

Frank

[moorsey]

Do you feel that this would still be a problem with florocarbon leaders, or do you think the thickness would be enough to stop this?

 

I genuinely think the thicker the line the less likelihood there is of this happening and the fact a lot of anglers fish with heavy line nowadays helps.

 

In which case Frank, it could easily be the hook link that has lifted the scales and not the main line. If you think of the angles of the line with a fish taking off hard from under your feet the lead is likely to have been above it but with the hook link against its flank.

Keith I will be honest and say I never really gave that a thought but I doubt it.

If it were the hooklink it would surely effect the smaller carp, as there would be more likelihood of a long hooklink reaching their sides.

You have caught enough big carp to realize that a short/standard hooklink

will not reach the flank.

My theory is that the scales are larger on the bigger fish and there is more likelihood of the line slipping under them.

You will no doubt recall that I stated I use leaders in the margins for free lining, since doing this I have not had a problem.

This could be coincidence though because as I said it was not a common occurrence.

However you will be pleased to know due to our discussions on leaders I have re-thought my rigs for this season, and I will no longer use leaders for this.

I will try heavy fluro mainline instead.

Frank

 

Be lucky mate, it certainly works for me. I'm currently using the "Big-carp" fluoro in 16 lb BS and I am very impressed (and I have to pay for it) so if you want the contact details let me know.

Keith

[moorsey]

Just to keep everyone fully up to date I have just had a phone call from Chris Logsden from MKF and he tells me that they have lost another two thirties over the last 12 months from tethered leaders. It really is time that we, as anglers, began to put the welfare of the carp in front of the "catching at all costs" mentality that some have slipped into.

[pali]

Hmm, that seems to be a valid argument. Poor fish

 

Well, if you write the article what we spoke about it will be published, it is already agreed with the biggest mag in Slovakia, the editor is very much interested. http://www.rrr.sk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=109&Itemid=36

Though it is not carp only mag, but carping is the most important part of it.

 

Another thing is that they have also the TV show every 2 weeks where the impact can be even more strong but to organize being you in front of the camera is a bit more tough thing (because of distance).

[moorsey]

Hmm, that seems to be a valid argument. Poor fish

 

Well, if you write the article what we spoke about it will be published, it is already agreed with the biggest mag in Slovakia, the editor is very much interested. http://www.rrr.sk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=109&Itemid=36

Though it is not carp only mag, but carping is the most important part of it.

 

Another thing is that they have also the TV show every 2 weeks where the impact can be even more strong but to organize being you in front of the camera is a bit more tough thing (because of distance).

 

Hi Pali

My article for Advanced is written and posted mate. I will re-write it for you and add my thoughts on hooks and lead clips so that you have a complete argument to put forward. It would be good to be infront of cameras again but I think the language may be a minor problem mate. lol.

Keith

 

Edit; Pali, I have just glanced through some of the contents of your magazine on your link and was hoorified to see them showing a "helicopter" set up with a swivel at both ends. That is an absolute guaranteed DEATH RIG mate. There is no way that the fish can ever lose the lead weight and it WILL be tethered. Please make some comment to the editor to get that changed as fast as you can.

[pali]

Now you can understand Keith why I asked you on writing that article. I had a short talk with the editor and he was quite shocked on what I´ve told him. The good thing is that he is not stuck on "being right" and is ready to provide field with new informations.

 

15 years ago when they started the TV show there were maybe only 150 anglers releasing caught fish (out of 130.000). This editor is repeatedly promoting Catch and Release method in all that years. Now the young generation accepted it and the old ones also are changing mind though it is a slow process.

 

But you can see, that while writing your article it is very much needed to show photos and charts of safe and death rigs and it must be very down to earth because there is quite some task to be achieved. You can cause more than you think by all this.

 

Edit: Yes, I have found the article on helicopter rig and I am sending the comment on that to the mag. It would be great if you could send me the original photos from http://www.fishingmagic.com/news/article/mps/UAN/3066/v/3/sp/ (in a print quality)

Am I right to assume that you made them?

[moorsey]

Now you can understand Keith why I asked you on writing that article. I had a short talk with the editor and he was quite shocked on what I´ve told him. The good thing is that he is not stuck on "being right" and is ready to provide field with new informations.

 

15 years ago when they started the TV show there were maybe only 150 anglers releasing caught fish (out of 130.000). This editor is repeatedly promoting Catch and Release method in all that years. Now the young generation accepted it and the old ones also are changing mind though it is a slow process.

 

But you can see, that while writing your article it is very much needed to show photos and charts of safe and death rigs and it must be very down to earth because there is quite some task to be achieved. You can cause more than you think by all this.

 

OK mate. Now that I have a bit more understanding of your needs I will write a specific article for you with the basics (and pictures) of what is meant by a death rig as opposed to a safe rig. I will try to cover as many of the rigs that I have discovered rather than simply saying "don't do this." Incidently I am very proud to have been asked to write this and I sincerely hope that it helps for you mate.

[pali]

OK mate. Now that I have a bit more understanding of your needs I will write a specific article for you with the basics (and pictures) of what is meant by a death rig as opposed to a safe rig. I will try to cover as many of the rigs that I have discovered rather than simply saying "don't do this." Incidently I am very proud to have been asked to write this and I sincerely hope that it helps for you mate.

 

My article correcting the wrong setup of helicopter with swivel was sent to the magazine and will be published on the very next issue. At the end I wrote an anouncement of your article which should cover the larger scope of the topic. The editor was very interested and willing to provide anglers with informations which will increase the carp safety.

I am honored to help you to spread the news.