Semi-fixed or in-line rigs.

[stevew1805]

As you may know, I am a complete novice. But I had a long chat with my experienced fishing buddy last night, and I got to thinking about semi-fixed and in-line rigs.

 

It seems to me that an in-line rig is more stable on the bottom and has less movement than a semi-fixed rig, which led me to believe that it would be more effective in hooking fish.

 

Can I ask: what are your views on my thoughts, and what makes you use a semi-fixed, as opposed to an in-line rig?

 

Many thanks in advance.

[zander1]

A semi-fixed can be an inline rig and infact normaly is, however you can use an inline lead with a running setup just like you can a pendant style lead.

 

So when you talk of semi-fixed im guessing you mean leadclips, leadsleves etc where it is a swivel/pendant style lead that is semi fixed???

 

If you are on a hard bottom lake, or where there isnt alot of debris, you can get an inline lead to sit nice and flat, keeping your hooklink and leader even closer to teh lake bed, you get a good bolt effect to as the fish has to move less to feel the full weight of the lead.

So i think you are spot on on thinking that an Inline rig is more stable and probably more efficient in hooking the carp- on a flat bottom-but it does depend on the situation

 

if you are fishing on a softer bed- a few inches of bottom debris, soft mud or light silt etc- a leadclip or sleeve can work to your advantage as if the lead "plugs" into the bottom, your hooklink and leader still have a good chance of lying flat on the deck as the lead and the swivel my land in the debris etc and sit up right but not be visible as it is under the surface of the lake bed, (as camouflaged as you can possible want your lead to be ) The swivel on the lead may still be above the debris etc so that your hooklink-leader are not pulled into the debris. This means that there is less chance of your hooklink (if its a stiffer type of hooklink- fluro-coated braid etc) from sticking up out of the debris like it would on an in-line set up if the inline became "plugged"

 

I dont know if i have explained that too well so sorry if it sounds patronizing or long winded

[salokcinnodrog]

This any help?

https://forum.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=26640

 

Yes In-lines should be more stable on the bottom, and despite the Lead Clip being advocated by many I also find them useful in weed. With Inlines the Carp should "hit" the lead as soon as it moves.

[stevew1805]

That was great Zander - many thanks, you explained it very nicely.

 

Thanks too salokcinnodrog - I will check that link now.

[zander1]

No problem fella

[moorsey]

2 questions just to add to your thoughts:-

 

1. Do you think that the lead actually does hook the fish?

 

2. Do you want to know when the fish picks up the bait or would you rather not know until it has moved the lead?

[jemsue5]

Sharp hooks hook the fish not the lead, i've seen them bolt off when pricked on a freeline rig and had loads of screamers on light running leads.

[moorsey]

I totally agree Jez.

I just wanted to make the point that we seem to have gone down a carp angling road where most anglers think that you must have a semi fixed or bolt rig. Personally I haven't used either of those two set ups for about 10 years except for on the river Saone where I need to drop the lead as early as possible in order to have any chance of landing the things.

Keith

 

Incidently I had a 41.12 mirror last year on a free-lined bait and it was one of the best hook holds ever.

[salokcinnodrog]

2 questions just to add to your thoughts:-

 

1. Do you think that the lead actually does hook the fish?

 

2. Do you want to know when the fish picks up the bait or would you rather not know until it has moved the lead?

 

 

1. No. I think as Jez says that a sharp hook hooks the fish, and in many cases we play the hook to a better hookhold during the fight. The point goes into the lip, and then as the rod is picked up to "strike" because we are pulling "up" the hook shank the point goes in even further.

 

 

2. The sooner I get indication the better, preferably as soon as it picks it up or starts to move, rather than it moving the lead. With a running lead I think that the hooklink "extends" and so line is taken through the run ring.

 

Not sure that makes sense, but I know what I mean

 

Some of my best hookholds on Carp have been on Float fished or freelined surface baits.

 

Do we go to a Leadclip because we need it or because of the "Innovators" or advertising rather than what may actually be best?

[stevew1805]

2 questions just to add to your thoughts:-

 

1. Do you think that the lead actually does hook the fish?

 

2. Do you want to know when the fish picks up the bait or would you rather not know until it has moved the lead?

 

 

1. No. I think as Jez says that a sharp hook hooks the fish, and in many cases we play the hook to a better hookhold during the fight. The point goes into the lip, and then as the rod is picked up to "strike" because we are pulling "up" the hook shank the point goes in even further.

 

 

2. The sooner I get indication the better, preferably as soon as it picks it up or starts to move, rather than it moving the lead. With a running lead I think that the hooklink "extends" and so line is taken through the run ring.

 

Not sure that makes sense, but I know what I mean

 

Some of my best hookholds on Carp have been on Float fished or freelined surface baits.

 

Do we go to a Leadclip because we need it or because of the "Innovators" or advertising rather than what may actually be best?

 

This is all very interesting and (as a novice) I am learning a lot - so thanks to everyone.

 

Regarding hooking the fish, I watched the Korda DVD's, and saw carp simply pick up a bait, but because of the short rig length, it felt the hook, dashed off and hooked itself on the lead (with help of the strike). The hook was also bent upwards with tubing to help it into the lip.

 

It looked like the carp were happy to stay stationary and pluck at the bottom food. On a completely free running rig, I wonder if the fish would have been able to eject the hook, without a run, or even a bite indication.

 

Any thoughts?

[jemsue5]

Once the fish has pricked itself on the hook and dashed off it is hooked lead or no lead. You will get better indication of what is going on at the hook end with a running lead and a slack line than a semi fixed set up all the time. From what i remember about the korda vids when Danny changed over to running leads his hook up ratio improved considerably. This to me shows that the carp find a running rig more difficult to deal with than the semi fixed lead where they use the lead as a pivot point to help lose the hook. Experiment with different rigs and find out what works for you on your waters as not everywhere is the same due to lake bottom variation and even the general shape of the fish.

[moorsey]

Good post Jez.

Having spoken to a lot of anglers who take the Korda vids as a "bible" they seem to forget that Danny (and I know him well) also has a tackle company which needs to sell as much terminal tackle as well. His videos wouldn't promote too many sales if he openly stated that you don't need lead core or safety zone leaders or lead clips etc.

I would love to see a secret video made while each of the Korda lads are fishing "off camera" and using what they privately think is the most effective rig.

[levigsp]

A good point made by Jez to try different things and the fact that different things work for different fish.

I am a fan of fishing free lined baits in the margins, ive watched carp pick up the bait 10-20 times without getting hooked,simple addition of a lead resulted in hookups.

I am thefirst to point out carp can and do use leads to eject hooks,but not always.

Another good point by Moorsey,I would also like to see a secret video

Frank

[jemsue5]

Frank, i must say that when i am free lining i am sight fishing and that i expect to strike and set the hook myself therefore negating the need for a lead to help set the hook. To me though a razor sharp hook is still the most important item of fishing tackle i've got.

[zander1]

Good post Jez.

Having spoken to a lot of anglers who take the Korda vids as a "bible" they seem to forget that Danny (and I know him well) also has a tackle company which needs to sell as much terminal tackle as well. His videos wouldn't promote too many sales if he openly stated that you don't need lead core or safety zone leaders or lead clips etc.

I would love to see a secret video made while each of the Korda lads are fishing "off camera" and using what they privately think is the most effective rig.

 

I think that it was Ian chilliot in one of his articles in carp world that advocated watching things like the korda dvds on mute so that you see what is there and come to your own conclusion to what is happening rather than being influenced or told what is going on by somebody else whilst you are watching what is happening

 

(if i can find it i will quote it later )

 

I would just like more underwater of footage with several different rigs and lead setups and how the carp react rather than watching all of the rig tying and baiting, and tackle plugs

[noknot]

Hi steve,

 

I like to think that the "hook arrangement" is responsable for hooking Carp and fished with a running lead to me is the most sensitive set up by far, and I tend to use shorter stiffish hooklenths as any movement of the bait will give an indication at the rod end"beep"!

 

I have noticed recently while fishing that I get a few single beeps which develope into a run, but with a fixed lead there will be no indication until the hooklengh is extended and the lead is moved

[moorsey]

This is going to sound strange but, for me, the most effective way to go fishing is to stop reading angling mags and stop watching angling vids. Without the costant plugs for specific rigs you end up thinking for yourself and answering each question as it arises which leads to the best situation possible for your own fishing.

Let's be honest any article or video is only relevant to those particular fish in that particular lake at that particular time in those particular conditions. The rigs etc used won't necessarily work the same the following week if conditions have changed.

[stevew1805]

Terrific points lads - many thanks.

 

I am completely on board with top quality, razor sharp hooks - that seems a no brainer to me (no offence meant). Also, I agree the DVDs were aimed at sales. I will also be trying different things in different situations and recording my results. I am going out for the first time on 20th Feb with an experienced pal who catches regularly. I will soak up all his advice so I can walk before I can run; but over time I imagine (and hope) I will try different things - I just need to try and learn as much as I can and keep things as simple as possible.

[jemsue5]

I'm sure most of the wonder rigs shown in the mags have never been used in anger. Me i use dead simple rigs for 99% of my fishing, i understand them and they work.

[noknot]

I'm sure most of the wonder rigs shown in the mags have never been used in anger. Me i use dead simple rigs for 99% of my fishing, i understand them and they work.

 

same here Jez, no tubing or leader but a lead and beads! they don't get much money from me

[levigsp]

Frank, i must say that when i am free lining i am sight fishing and that i expect to strike and set the hook myself therefore negating the need for a lead to help set the hook. To me though a razor sharp hook is still the most important item of fishing tackle i've got.

Jez I too sight fish whilst free lining, however I have fished countless times where I cannot see because the water is to turbid or it is in fact dark.

I to beleave in sharp hooks,as sharp as possible.

But as stated I have put baited hooks in the water freelined and watched carp get away with it,a simple addition of a weight changed everything,even when the weight was only a couple of foot of leader

On other waters no weight is needed.

I have sugested on this forum before that I consider the makeup of the bottom a very important fact in my choise of hooking arrangment.

The strain/shape of carp also has a profound effect on some waters.

However these are only my ways and thoughts,and as said before I got strange ideas about carp.

[levigsp]

I'm sure most of the wonder rigs shown in the mags have never been used in anger. Me i use dead simple rigs for 99% of my fishing, i understand them and they work.

Two anglers that regulary have articals in the carping press were fishing a well known southern still water.

I asked If they minded me watching being a novice and all that,they obliged.

After some time I asked one of them to show me how to tie up a rig he was using 3 months earlyer in the mags and also show me how it worked.

He informed me it was so long ago and so much had changed, he could not remember how to tie it,or how it worked.

This answered some very important questions for me.

[levigsp]

This is going to sound strange but, for me, the most effective way to go fishing is to stop reading angling mags and stop watching angling vids. Without the costant plugs for specific rigs you end up thinking for yourself and answering each question as it arises which leads to the best situation possible for your own fishing.

Let's be honest any article or video is only relevant to those particular fish in that particular lake at that particular time in those particular conditions. The rigs etc used won't necessarily work the same the following week if conditions have changed.

Hi Kieth,I started comming onto the forum to see if I could get to know any like minded souls and to see if I could learn a thing or two and perhaps help on or two.

Most anglers you see nowdays or in fact in the past do not think for themselves,they simply do what they have been shown either first or second hand.

A few think for themselves work out how to catch fish,and either first or second hand teach all the others.

Magazines and forums for that matter can help beginers, they also can help thinking anglers in their train of thought.

But in a lot of situations you know they will read and follow like sheep.

[jemsue5]

I have to admit that when its dark or coloured water i will use a lead instead of freelining the margins and in the past sometimes a short length of leadcore as the weight although i now never use it instead using a length of tungstan tubing.

[stevew1805]

This is going to sound strange but, for me, the most effective way to go fishing is to stop reading angling mags and stop watching angling vids. Without the costant plugs for specific rigs you end up thinking for yourself and answering each question as it arises which leads to the best situation possible for your own fishing.

Let's be honest any article or video is only relevant to those particular fish in that particular lake at that particular time in those particular conditions. The rigs etc used won't necessarily work the same the following week if conditions have changed.

Hi Kieth,I started comming onto the forum to see if I could get to know any like minded souls and to see if I could learn a thing or two and perhaps help on or two.

Most anglers you see nowdays or in fact in the past do not think for themselves,they simply do what they have been shown either first or second hand.

A few think for themselves work out how to catch fish,and either first or second hand teach all the others.

Magazines and forums for that matter can help beginers, they also can help thinking anglers in their train of thought.

But in a lot of situations you know they will read and follow like sheep.

 

For what it's worth, I think this is spot on. I like to think that when I go out I will always be asking myself the question: "Why are you doing that?". In other words I will try and think my way through what I do and, after a time, be able to build up a store of knowledge that I can deploy and hopefully catch regularly.

 

The other thing I have found is that, as a novice, I did the usual thing in buying books, magazines, DVDs, and joining forums. Very soon I found I had a healthy dose of "information overload". I quickly stopped trying to remember everything, and felt I needed to start simple and slow, and then gradually grow into a thoughtful angler with good water craft skills and a range of fishing options at my disposal.