particles and running rigs

[woodchester17]

anyone use running rigs with beds of maize and hemp and tigers??

 

i know the general feeling is running rigs are a big no no as you need fish movement to get indication on a running set up.

 

however i would miss the fantastic indications from running rigs and would really like to avoid the semi fixed set ups as ive had many situations where fish have moved 20 yards in a arc before i get so much as a beep!!

 

i normally use the multi rig with a huge blob of putty to help set the hook on running leads with a wide scattering of boilies to encourage fish moving from one bait to the next but planning a particle approach this year.

 

your thoughts please chaps and ladies??

 

mark

[Guest keenook]

Why not just use a "Bolt rig"???

[woodchester17]

that means semi fixed and poor indication

[Guest keenook]

that means semi fixed and poor indication

No a bolt rig is running until it hit's the stop, by then it's too late!

[salokcinnodrog]

that means semi fixed and poor indication

No a bolt rig is running until it hit's the stop, by then it's too late!

 

Probably also termed "shocka" rig.

 

The lead is free running until it hits the top stop.

[woodchester17]

Would the fish still not have to move a fair way to hit the shocker bead? And when fishing over beds of hemp etc they aparently don't do that?

 

Suppose my question is what lead arrangement is best for fishing over beds of particle to hook the fish while keeping good bite indication?

[travisbickle]

Kev is right...a good old fashioned bolt rig will do the trick...when theyre feeding over particles ..inc hemp, they dont hoover up in perfect symmetry...they do actively move around on the baited area...hence clear indication ..up until the stop knot...and then BINGO....worked for me for decades and have no complaints or need for change

[rosstheangler]

I've never had a problem with bite indication when using a running rig over anything.

 

I think you're over thinking the situation.

[liamclose]

I mite be missing the point but dont see the difference between using a running lead over a bed of bait or using it over spread of boilies. When the fish get prickd by the hook they run weather its a running rig or fixed rig.

 

Personally i think people who say useing running rigs over a bed of particle dont work as good or useing semi fixed rigs are better, are as useal looking far to much into things and making it needlessly more complicated than it needs be. But thats modern carp fishing for you!

 

That aint to say that running rigs and fixed rigs wont sometimes outfish each other if ones been to done to death and the other hardly been used then the it would possibly make differnce. But baiting situations bed of particle or spread of boilie dont come into it imo!

[travisbickle]

I mite be missing the point but dont see the difference between using a running lead over a bed of bait or using it over spread of boilies. When the fish get prickd by the hook they run weather its a running rig or fixed rig.

 

Personally i think people who say useing running rigs over a bed of particle dont work as good or useing semi fixed rigs are better, are as useal looking far to much into things and making it needlessly more complicated than it needs be. But thats modern carp fishing for you!

 

That aint to say that running rigs and fixed rigs wont sometimes outfish each other if ones been to done to death and the other hardly been used then the it would possibly make differnce. But baiting situations bed of particle or spread of boilie dont come into it imo!

bang on....like most things thesedays it is overthought...but also....its not a case of the fish being pricked with the hook...its how long the hook is in its mouth BEFORE it gets pricked, with a fair degree of certainty in that particular circumstance I can say that a bolt will outfish...simply down to the fact that it is self pricking....the fish hooks itself "properly" on the first run.....but as said....I agree...most issues are so over complicated now...and no need to be

[liamclose]

Agreed i use bolt rig for most of my fishing but that would be in any baiting situation weather its a spread of boilies or tight bed of particle.

[woodchester17]

Nice one, il stick to my running rigs then!! Was just concerned that when there isn't the weight of the lead to drive the hook home and the fish are not moving much and are rather stationary over the particle id be getting 'done'

 

Might try fixed on one and running on the other and compare results!

[salokcinnodrog]

Nice one, il stick to my running rigs then!! Was just concerned that when there isn't the weight of the lead to drive the hook home and the fish are not moving much and are rather stationary over the particle id be getting 'done'

 

Might try fixed on one and running on the other and compare results!

 

I must admit, I don't think that the weight of the lead drives the hook home, but more the speed that the carp moves away. (Have a look at the 2 pics I put on this thread about hooksharpness, https://forum.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=53280)

 

If it is "spooked" and panics (bolts), then the weight of the lead may have some relevance, and the heavier the lead, the more chance of it pricking the fish. The hook actually gets driven or pulled in more during the fight.

 

A carp can actually eject the hook with a semi-fixed lead, from what can be a very good hookhold (see Ken Townley's chapter in Tim Paisleys Big Carp), by mouth movement alone.

 

With running leads you are getting indication that there is interest in your hookbait, from those first bleeps, to a proper run due to the slack line allowing line to be pulled through the run ring in whichever direction the fish moves, whereas with a semi-fixed lead the carp has to move past the length and arc of the hooklink.

[woodchester17]

Thanks nick, so would you be happy with a running rig over particle? And you would be confident that the fish will hook itself ok even when quite stationary hoovering up hemp and maize grains?

 

Sorry if I sound like I'm on repeat mode we just get told by many mags and authors that for a fish to hook itself on a running rig you need a wide scattering to get the fish moving between baits so it picks yours up , goes to move to the next bait and bingo. Long as your sure il be ok with my simple running rigs il sleep better tonight!!

 

Thanks in advance, wils

[adam77]

I use runnning rig with particles and have no problems hooking fish

[rosstheangler]

I understand the principle of using a bolt rig but, basically the way most modern carp fishing is done every rig is a bolt rig.

 

Using a bobbin, swinger or even a line clip adds resistance making your rig a bolt rig.

 

Albeit not at the end tackle but it has the same effect.

[salokcinnodrog]

I understand the principle of using a bolt rig but, basically the way most modern carp fishing is done every rig is a bolt rig.

 

Using a bobbin, swinger or even a line clip adds resistance making your rig a bolt rig.

 

Albeit not at the end tackle but it has the same effect.

 

Only when all the slack is taken up. I fish my indicators at maximum drop, or resting on the ground.

 

I use running rigs over groundbait (which I think is creating the same effect as particles), where the carp are just hoovering up the whole lot as they "graze" along the lakebed, and where I am fishing with scattered baits, stringers and bags and have not noticed any problems.

[rosstheangler]

I understand the principle of using a bolt rig but, basically the way most modern carp fishing is done every rig is a bolt rig.

 

Using a bobbin, swinger or even a line clip adds resistance making your rig a bolt rig.

 

Albeit not at the end tackle but it has the same effect.

 

Only when all the slack is taken up. I fish my indicators at maximum drop, or resting on the ground.

 

I use running rigs over groundbait (which I think is creating the same effect as particles), where the carp are just hoovering up the whole lot as they "graze" along the lakebed, and where I am fishing with scattered baits, stringers and bags and have not noticed any problems.

 

In respect to when all the slack is taken up surely then slack lines would give worse indication?

 

If a fish picks up you're bait and pulls 2 inches of line through your leads run rig does your alarm beep and your bobbin move?

 

I believe it does, which is resistance, causing the bolt effect.

[salokcinnodrog]

I understand the principle of using a bolt rig but, basically the way most modern carp fishing is done every rig is a bolt rig.

 

Using a bobbin, swinger or even a line clip adds resistance making your rig a bolt rig.

 

Albeit not at the end tackle but it has the same effect.

 

Only when all the slack is taken up. I fish my indicators at maximum drop, or resting on the ground.

 

I use running rigs over groundbait (which I think is creating the same effect as particles), where the carp are just hoovering up the whole lot as they "graze" along the lakebed, and where I am fishing with scattered baits, stringers and bags and have not noticed any problems.

 

In respect to when all the slack is taken up surely then slack lines would give worse indication?

 

If a fish picks up you're bait and pulls 2 inches of line through your leads run rig does your alarm beep and your bobbin move?

 

I believe it does, which is resistance, causing the bolt effect.

 

Imagine a slack line running through a tube, you can pull it quite easily, the water acts in this way, as a tube, so there is minimal resistance. The indicator lifts up easily with the slack line. I think the only resistance is when the slack line has been taken up and is now pulling tight

 

Now try a tight line cutting through the water, whichever way it moves there is resistance.

[rosstheangler]

I understand the principle of using a bolt rig but, basically the way most modern carp fishing is done every rig is a bolt rig.

 

Using a bobbin, swinger or even a line clip adds resistance making your rig a bolt rig.

 

Albeit not at the end tackle but it has the same effect.

 

Only when all the slack is taken up. I fish my indicators at maximum drop, or resting on the ground.

 

I use running rigs over groundbait (which I think is creating the same effect as particles), where the carp are just hoovering up the whole lot as they "graze" along the lakebed, and where I am fishing with scattered baits, stringers and bags and have not noticed any problems.

 

In respect to when all the slack is taken up surely then slack lines would give worse indication?

 

If a fish picks up you're bait and pulls 2 inches of line through your leads run rig does your alarm beep and your bobbin move?

 

I believe it does, which is resistance, causing the bolt effect.

 

Imagine a slack line running through a tube, you can pull it quite easily, the water acts in this way, as a tube, so there is minimal resistance. The indicator lifts up easily with the slack line. I think the only resistance is when the slack line has been taken up and is now pulling tight

 

Now try a tight line cutting through the water, whichever way it moves there is resistance.

 

I see what you mean Nick. Next time I'm on the bank I'll give it a go.