Using a shockleader safely.

[stuckingermany]

I need to get a bit of distance to get to the fish, so I am going to use a 3oz lead with a small PVA. and I have some suitable 35lb mono that I will use.

 

So time for a few questions before I put it on and start fishing.

 

(1) Do I still need to use rig tubing? (if the situation requires it when not using a shock leader)

 

(2) If I tie the shock leader on with a Double Grinner then surely my safety clip wont pass over the knot, if the worst happens and the line snaps above this knot.

 

Dont want to get this wrong and create a death rig for the carp. Unfortunately I dont have contact with other anglers to ask this, so I`m relying on the experts out there to brief me up.

 

 

Thanks in advance Matt.

[stoogi]

i wouldn't use a shockleader or tubing with 35 lb mono. how big are the carp your after?

[stuckingermany]

I am using 12Lb mainline but because of distance and weight I feel a shockleader may be of use.

 

Apologies if I didnt make that clear.

[tonybranno]

I am using 12Lb mainline but because of distance and weight I feel a shockleader may be of use.

 

Apologies if I didnt make that clear.

 

It was clear to me.

 

Sorry i cant help you though, i dont use shock leaders.

[neilscatchin]

I'm a bit unsure.Not being condescending what do you mean by a safety clip? A lead clip? If so the lead clip is only designed to jettison the lead definately not to move as it's a pivot point for the release of the lead and locked to the swivel.Definately recommend a shockleader as you'll have 3.5-4oz worth of weight even with a small bag.

[stuckingermany]

Yes I was talking about a lead clip.

 

Maybe I will go over to using a snap link with a rubber bead, unless anyone else has any better ideas.

 

Also has anyone tried rig putty on the leader itself, just to give it that extra bit of weight, to help pinning it to the bottom.

 

I have some flying backleads but have yet to use them as well.

 

I cant wait till the lake thaws out and I can get some lines in the water again. I dont mind the cold but -15 is not my idea of fishing weather.

[neilscatchin]

A few blobs of putty along the leader and a flying backlead will help to pin down the shockleader/mainline but I'd only recommend in conjunction with a lead clip set up as the putty may impair the ability of a running rig removing a vital safety aspect.Perhaps a specific manufacturer's running rig set up with a flying backlead alone may be the answer but either way if the mainline breaks the fish will still be trailing hooklength and leader.

[Guest Anonymous]

Matt, I appreciate the need for a shock leader but personally have never used them for carping. Wouldn't you be better to buy a higher breaking strain but lower diameter mainline to resolve the issue of knots & what will/won't slide over them? Or, go for braid?

 

(Sorry if this is teaching you to suck eggs)

 

As a 'rule of thumb' (& providing the rod can handle it) to calculate the breaking strain of a shock leader you should add a 'zero' to the end of the size of the total weight to be cast, i.e. a 3oz lead + 1oz of hookbait would in theory require a 40lb leader Not a small knot

 

Even with a (side) lead clip, in the event of a 'crack off' it's obviously your mainline which will go 1st leaving the potential for a fish to pick up your bait with 20 feet ( )of shockleader attached which even after the weight has detached itself IMO is a death rig.

 

Jay

[stuckingermany]

Even with a (side) lead clip, in the event of a 'crack off' it's obviously your mainline which will go 1st leaving the potential for a fish to pick up your bait with 20 feet ( )of shockleader attached which even after the weight has detached itself IMO is a death rig.

 

 

I agree with you, I have had a play today and although I can get my clip to slide over the knot there is still that chance of the mainline snapping.

 

How do people get over this with something as strong as leadcore?

 

I want to use the shockleader because of the extra weight but dont want to use braid as have heard it can damage your top ring.I am using a 12Lb mainline at the moment and the knot doesnt seem to bad.

 

I have put on about 5m of 35lb mono on so I think I will get myself over to sports pitch and have a few casts to see how the knot passes through the rings.

 

I am very dubious about banging the line on and going straight to the lake as the carps welfare comes before all else in my eyes.

[Guest Anonymous]

Even with a (side) lead clip, in the event of a 'crack off' it's obviously your mainline which will go 1st leaving the potential for a fish to pick up your bait with 20 feet ( )of shockleader attached which even after the weight has detached itself IMO is a death rig.

 

 

1) I agree with you.

 

2) How do people get over this with something as strong as leadcore?

 

3) I want to use the shockleader because of the extra weight but dont want to use braid as have heard it can damage your top ring.

 

4) I am very dubious about banging the line on and going straight to the lake as the carps welfare comes before all else in my eyes.

 

1) I could be wrong... yes, it has been known.

 

2) ??? checkout a search for 'leadcore' everyone has a different view on it & it's safety.

 

3) I have heard about the braid (eventually) forming a groove in the top ring but have never actually seen it. I use braid on my feeder rod & have never seen any evidence of this. Perhaps someone else has?

 

4) Good for you.

[salokcinnodrog]

Hi Mate,

 

I have had Braid put a groove in a Tip Ring.

 

As has been said above, for every ounce of Lead use 10lbs of Shockleader.

 

Sorry if you think this is teaching you things you know anyway, but it may be useful for others as well

 

When it comes to Shockleaders and Knots I always use a Running Lead on the Run Rings (as I do normally anyway). With a Tight Line it acts as a Semi-Fixed Lead anyway.

 

If you want a good Shockleader knot then try this:

 

The normal material I use for Shockleaders is Black Amnesia in 30 or 35lb. It seems softer than the Clear. Or Grey Drennan Greased Weasel in whatever strain required.

You may find that the Tapered Leaders available work for you, but they don't for me!

 

Both Amnesia and Greased weasel tie a tidy knot. I do just slightly blob the tag end of the leader with a Lighter to prevent the knot coming undone if there is any slippage, (not that I have had it happen) and also because I don't like a Sharp tag end.

 

Keep the knot to the Back of the Spool when you reel in and it will reduce possible tangles and prevent a large amount of line coming off the spool in a Birds nest on the Cast.

[Guest Anonymous]

 

As has been said, for every ounce of Lead use 10lbs of Shockleader.

 

Sorry if you think this is teaching you things you know anyway, but it may be useful for others as well

 

 

You may find that the Tapered Leaders available work for you, but they don't for me!

 

Why don't tapered leaders work for you? For sea fishing I use the orange Daiwa Tournament tapered shock leader on Daiwa Turbo reels & these are the knots I use;

 

Either the Quick shore knot

 

 

Or the Full shore knot

 

The tag ends can be cut very very short & both knots will be tapered ensuring they pass through the guides smoothly.

[salokcinnodrog]

 

As has been said, for every ounce of Lead use 10lbs of Shockleader.

 

Sorry if you think this is teaching you things you know anyway, but it may be useful for others as well

 

 

You may find that the Tapered Leaders available work for you, but they don't for me!

 

Why don't tapered leaders work for you? For sea fishing I use the orange Daiwa Tournament tapered shock leader on Daiwa Turbo reels

 

 

I honestly don't know why they don't work for me!

 

I Have used them Sea Fishing as well as Carp Fishing and I continually get Crack-offs.

 

I have tied my own knots and had them tied by a Casting Instructor and Still get Crack-offs.

 

For Sea Fishing The reels I use are Standard Abu Elites, and for Carp Fishing Aerlex's.

 

I can only presume its something to do with my Casting Action?

[stuckingermany]

Is it worth attaching a short length of my 12Lb mainline after the shockleader and before my hooklink, to create a natural weakpoint in case the line does snap, preventing the fish from carrying 20ft of shockleader around in its mouth ?

 

Or does this negate the whole purpouse of the shockleadern ?

[Guest Anonymous]

Is it worth attaching a short length of my 12Lb mainline after the shockleader and before my hooklink, to create a natural weakpoint in case the line does snap, preventing the fish from carrying 20ft of shockleader around in its mouth ?

 

Or does this negate the whole purpouse of the shockleadern ?

 

You're obviously intent on using the shock leader so in that situation it would be safer.

 

I would actually make a weaker link by perhaps using a 10lb link between your leader & hooklength but you must bear in mind that your weight & any PVA bag MUST be attached to the leader then you could 'nik' the hook into the PVA bag cause otherwise like you say, all your efforts would have been in vein.

[neilscatchin]

Why not use a helicopter rig.That way if tied correctly there will be no doubt that the carp will be left trailing anything other than the hooklink(worse case scenario)and there's no need to add any weak points to your tackle at all.As long as the ring swivel can pass over the shockleader knot(I always check several times on the bank from different angles)then this is by far the safest way of using a shockleader without compromising on the fish's welfare.It has the added bonus of being relative tangle free too at range.

[riverbank]

i always use a leadcore leader spliced both ends and try to get away with the lowest breaking strain hook link i can with a safety clip.

ive never had the leacore go on me yet i have the hookling once at the swivel.

but have broke lead clips on the cast ,leaving the lead on the bank

[stuckingermany]

So basically the idea is that, if you feel like you have to use a shockleader , you want to make sure that the swivel/clip will pass over the knot and to use a hooklink that is weaker than the leader.

 

 

So if I use a 12Lb main line, 35 Lb shockleader and 10Lb hooklink then worst case the hooklink will go first.

 

Dont like the idea of attaching the "weak link" because of the need to put the PVA and hook so near to the lead. I tend to double bag the PVA so that I can give the line a little tug to ensure the hooklink is as far away and straight as possible with no slack.

 

Thats what I think but having only been carp fishing for a year ( sea and maggot drowning for 20) I would appreciate any more feedback.

[salokcinnodrog]

Is it worth attaching a short length of my 12Lb mainline after the shockleader and before my hooklink, to create a natural weakpoint in case the line does snap, preventing the fish from carrying 20ft of shockleader around in its mouth ?

 

Or does this negate the whole purpouse of the shockleadern ?

 

Problem is where is your lead going to sit on this?

 

 

 

If your lead is going on the Weak Link then it negates the Whole Point of the Shockleader.

With a Running Lead and the Large Run Ring then the Carp will only be trailing the Leader in the event of a Crack/Snap-off. The run ring will pass over the join. Since its not going to be held tight with anything then its unlikely to Snag.

I see what you are saying though, have a swivel/knot attached to your Shockleader at the Hooklink end, then a swivel attaching that to your Shockleader with the Lead running on the Shockleader.

 

In my view it creates another point that is a possible weakness in your Tackle.

 

Just stick to the Shockleader, but make it as Safe as you possibly can

[stuckingermany]

With a Running Lead and the Large Run Ring then the Carp will only be trailing the Leader in the event of a Crack/Snap-off. The run ring will pass over the join. Since its not going to be held tight with anything then its unlikely to Snag.

 

Yes I agree I was typing out loud I think there

[salokcinnodrog]

With a Running Lead and the Large Run Ring then the Carp will only be trailing the Leader in the event of a Crack/Snap-off. The run ring will pass over the join. Since its not going to be held tight with anything then its unlikely to Snag.

 

Yes I agree I was typing out loud I think there

 

No Problem, far better to think and query than to accept Blindly

[riverbank]

i would never fish without a shock leader as they serve several purposes

my view is i've never lifted a scale from a fish by using leadcore in long lenghs as ive seen with ppl using really short lenghs of tubeing or no shock leader at all.it stops crack offs, and keeps your line pinned down avoiding spooking the fish. when fishing on bars they really do take the brunt of all the grinding.but by creating the weakest point at the hooklink end that's where ive only ever exspeirianced it going.if it did go where the line attaches to the the leadcore i always make sure my lead clip goes up and down my leadcore effortlessly so worst case i mean worst case i guess it would trail the lead core but as ive said ive never lost a leader yet, and change them a soon as they even look like they need it.