marker

i just let it drop naturally on the floor with no coils, it works ok if you sort of lob it out with quite a high cast

just a case of which way you prefer really, i use the line aligner myself, i've never been happy having my hooklink anywhere near a steaming kettle

i use drennan double strength myself, i carry 6,8 and 10lb versions, start high and scale down if you can't get bites

well i'm glad you posted the picture mate, at least now your not going to use that rig, i must admit its a real shocker

Some years ago Partridge bought out D rig hooks complete with ring and the hair whipped onto the shank, they even did them in green Didn't Carp-R-Us (on Nailers ?) and Big Fish Adventure also follow suit? I gave some of the Carp-R-Us ones that I got as samples somewhere to a mate who was having problems tying them. I also made up some myself using Whipping thread or cotton and a short length of Amnesia yeah they did nick, i actually started with the big fish adventure ones because they were based on my favourite b175's they were very expensive though, from memory they were £3 for a packet of 5 and this was in the late 90's, hideously expensive at the time thats what led me to whip my own, buying the materials and doing them yourself was miles cheaper, i don't tend to use the rig often these days but i've still got my fly tying vice handy just in case the rig was very very effective and it helped me crack a real tough nut of a water at the time

i use 20lb amnesia and whip my 'd' with fly tying cotton, instead of using a rig ring i use a small loop of mono as a hair rig like this.... http://anglersdiary.blogspot.com/2008/07/carp-rigs-d-rig.html its a cracking rig

i voted eyed, in fact i don't know a carp angler thats ever used a spade end hook

the bottom beads are fixed in place jack, the loop is free to rotate around. the top bead is very wide bore as is the top loop. its the bore of the top bead and the top loop that makes the rig safer than a standard helicopter rig when you use a leader and your line breaks, you have to make sure any stop beads can clear the leader knot/splice. the cv safety rig is a helicopter setup that was designed to make this as easy as possible. i must admit i ducked writing about leaders for ages and it took me a while to pull that entry together, even then i still wasn't sure about it but i put it out anyway with the hope that it would get people thinking if nothing else, so i'm glad its given you food for thought personally i won't use leadcore or any other kind of leader because i don't believe they are as safe as tubing

hi zander, thats my blog so perhaps i should try and explain lol as keith points out, the old cv safety rig doesn't use a loop of leadcore, it uses a solid wire loop and its there to stop the hooklink running back up the leadcore (the loop actually spins as its loose fitting and it must be a solid metal loop not leadcore as you've done!). its needed because the top bead has an exceptionally wide bore and it isn't held in place with anything unlike a conventional helicopter rig (its so loose your hooklink would simply end up sliding off your leadcore on the cast without the loop). obviously the wide bore is to make sure the bead and in turn the hooklink can come away in the event of a breakage, the bore of the bead is wide enough to pass over a leader knot or a splice if its set up correctly, its about as safe as you can get for leadcore although probrably not as safe as not using it at all and if you read the whole entry you'll see that its actually an anti leadcore message with a safest option for those that choose to bury their heads in the sand and tell themselves its safe to use if that makes sense

same as i do on a lake for me too

good decision from mid kent

mines predictable too, i use about 5ft of drennan double strength, greased up with mucilin as recommended above

very predictable david, try and turn it round so i'm avoiding the issue, trouble is the issue is leadcore. when you looked at leadcore and made the decision to use it, where exactly did poorly prepared particles fit into your decision making process? remind me again who's avoiding the issue

hi david, i've said all i've got to say, i've stated my case for not using leadcore, thats what this thread is about, throwing in other areas of fishing like particles and asking where does it end is just deflecting away from the subject, something that leadcore users are very good at when it comes to justifying its use, can't defend it so attack something else i'm officially retired from this thread

yep its been fun kev, theres no way we'll ever agree but at least we can put our points accross in a civil manner i've read everything you've written carefully and none of the scenarios you've thrown in to try and cloud the issue have convinced me to change my mind like it or not, a rig without leadcore is safer than one with it, we have a duty to fish as safely as we can and to me, you can't get any safer than not using it thats the very bottom line and my final post on this thread. origonally, i only intended to say i agree with bini's brother and had no intention of getting into a debate its been fun though and the world would be a very boring place if we all thought the same

Banning a whole range of products that are not only effective but also lead to more fish being safely landed and not damaged in the process is crazy to say the least. Your also exagerating the amount of fish that pay the ultimate price for unsafe set-ups on 2 counts - far less people fish unsafely than you imagine due to the amount of good literature around today and fish are a lot more able to shed hooks and subsequently rigs than you give them credit for. not sure what lakes you fish on kev but round here the majority of carp anglers wouldn't know a safe rig if it jumped up and bit them on the nose i know how good fish are at getting rid, your trying to paint a very rosey picture but my eyes tell me different mate. you can't say how many fish die tethered, nobody can because we never see the end result do we? whenever a thread like this comes up people always defend leadcore saying 'i've never had a problem', well they wouldn't would they, its the carp that gets the problem my point is tethering known to happen and these products (leaders) are usually to blame, whats wrong with making every effort to avoid them? Your helicopter/tubing setup that you rave to be completely safe is far from it as with all set-ups - nothing is foolproof and can snag through weedclod and tangles and many other scenarios, depending where the line breaks and how it has been set-up. Your helicopter/tubing set-up is very poor in weedy lakes as the lead is unable to discharge.........! But do you make allowances for that - I'll guess not! no setup with a leader is completely safe kev, the helicopter is the 'safest'. weedy lakes are a nightmare, not the place for any kind of leader really, even if its tied helicopter style. as you say nothing is foolproof, the safest way is to not incorporate any leader at all Going back to my point above barbless hooks and lighter hooklinks will improve the safety of any set-up. light hooklengths may help...then again, even what we consider to be light maybe too much for a carp if its tethered with limited movement? barbless hooks, they may be easier to get rid of but then again i've caught fish trailing barbless rigs on more than one occaision, just how easy are they to get rid of? i can't say....can you? swings and roundabouts mate. Banning products is not the way to go - beginners to the sport and experienced alike now have access to information like never before so there are a hell of a lot of good anglers out there (young and old) who not only put fish safety first on the bank, but also in the thinking behind their set-ups. sorry mate i disagree, plenty of information yes but a lot of poor anglers out there, just visit a popular day ticket water and tell me most...not all as it should be, but most can fish leadcore safely If you have reason to suspect that someone is using what YOU deem to be a death-rig, speak to them or inform the baillif who can show them better ways. if i see a poor setup i educate them kev, no fear of that as i am a club bailiff and i see first hand every week just how bad some rigs are Your thoughts seem very shortsighted and misleading - you could always look at the brilliant improvements in fishing practice, but I guess your glass is half empty? short sighted and misleading? errr no i don't think so, truthful observations based on what i see on the bank when fishing and bailiffing not what the latest mag or manufacturers dvd designed to flog this junk wants me to believe

yes mate i'd send clear, coloured and shock leaders the same way its debatable wether education works, with some people yes, with others no, i'm of the opinion we should be protecting all of our fish now, not continually having to educate people who come into the sport education is a nice idea but how many fish will continually have to pay the price? people come and go from carp fishing all the time so rather than educate its easier and safer to just ban them

as a general rule bini, don't tie the leadcore to your hooklink swivel if you do this, the fish tows the leadcore along with the hooklength and this just isn't acceptable in this day and age even if the lead gets lost it has to be a helicopter style setup to be safe, furthermore, if you splice leadcore don't splice it into a loop, splice it to your mainline with a needle knot, doing it this way enables any beads and your hooklink swivel to come away easier in the event of your mainline breaking to be honest, its far easier and safer not to use it

your post really does frighten me david you really need to look a bit deeper into leadcore mate, the stuff just isn't safe for carp fishing its been banned on a lot of waters because people just can't tie it up safely. take a long hard look at your last statement in your first post, your mainline breaks but leadcore is much stronger etc etc. think about it, if your mainline breaks and you haven't set it up correctly that carp gets left towing the leadcore, if your rig is really poorly constructed it ends up towing the leadcore and your lead too how does the carp get free if the leadcore/lead snags up? the simple answer is it doesn't, it dies a slow and lingering death through starvation the only safe way to set up leadcore is to use a cv safety/helicopter rig, in the event of the mainline breaking the hooklength can slide off the leadcore and everything gets dumped, any other way of using leadcore is dangerous, safety clips and inline leads used with leadcore are potential death traps if i had my way it would be banned from every fishery in the country use tubing mate, the esp tubing is heavier than leadcore anyway so it pins the line better, you won't get any lifted scales with tubing and in the event of you mainline breaking you haven't got a fish towing round something it can't escape from if it gets stuck bini and his brother can't tell the difference in results so that should tell you its pretty pointless using it, its expensive, uneccesary and potentially dangerous so why take a risk using it

i agree with your brother mate, sold to catch anglers just about sums it up nicely