Ddgx Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 I've finally found a fluorocarbon material that for me is supple enough to tie, bed down and doesn't want to curl up so much off the bottom (It's actually Fox Zig+). So, I've long been attracted to the idea of this near on invisible hooklink material so want to give it a proper shot on some simple rigs. Atm experimenting with a d-rig pop-up rig; so far what I love is it is so quick and simple to tie. Seems about as unclunky and uncluttered as it's possible to get and I also like the amount of free movement that the boilie on a rig ring offers. My slight anxiety is, at least with this size hook (6), the hook feels at an unnatural angle. So I tied version 2 as an alternative. My question is really, is anyone fishing either of these two arrangements, and what do you think, and am I just over thinking the hook angle on version 1, and it'll work just fine? Version 1 Version 2 Any other tips very welcome! Dan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 Option one for me mate I like the hook to sit at 45 degree angle with a pop up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salokcinnodrog Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 Honestly? How do the fish feed? Do they suck the hook in, or do they clamp down on it? See question below How close to the bottom is the pop-up? Do the fish clamp down and pick up the bait from close range? All might have some relevance as how you fish it? If the fish solely suck the bait then straight up may be preferable as in the bottom pic. If they also come in from above, the bait is low to the lakebed, and the fish almost pin the bait, clamping down on a bait individually, then at an angle, but it may also give possibility of hooking if some fish suck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ddgx Posted July 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 Nick, Great questions which I hadn't considered yet. Pfff well??? I suppose how they're feeding is going to be dependant on what type and quantity of offerings are down with the hookbait, how shy or aggressive they're feeding (that Vs. bait height). At the moment I only plan to pop baits up high enough to know the hook is clear of debris particularly along a tree-lined margin situation - twigs, leaves etc. If I'm scattering just boilies as freebies then (at a guess) I'd be expecting them to be cruising around picking them off (sucking).....I don't know now. My logical thoughts are gone for the day it's bed time! salokcinnodrog 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salokcinnodrog Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 Nick, Great questions which I hadn't considered yet. Pfff well??? I suppose how they're feeding is going to be dependant on what type and quantity of offerings are down with the hookbait, how shy or aggressive they're feeding (that Vs. bait height). At the moment I only plan to pop baits up high enough to know the hook is clear of debris particularly along a tree-lined margin situation - twigs, leaves etc. If I'm scattering just boilies as freebies then (at a guess) I'd be expecting them to be cruising around picking them off (sucking).....I don't know now. My logical thoughts are gone for the day it's bed time! Reading back my first answer, I must apologise, the first line 'honestly?' may seem slightly sarcastic, not my intention at all, just how I thought it through in my head as I started answering. For a quite high pop-up, it is only recently that I really started thinking how a pop-up sits in relation to the hook, either leant over or straight up. With a plain straight pop-up tight to the hook, I think the hook sits naturally at an angle, but I really do need to tank test to be sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ddgx Posted July 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 Cm, had a look at a write up by Lee Burden about a rig named the 'unfair rig'. At the moment I can't figure in my head how it behaves differently compared with having the weight after the pivot point below the hook. I think I'd certainly like to tie it and see how it behaves in some water later. That's a very kind offer! Thank you! I'm going to make a point of looking out for someone in need of something that I have and no longer using, so I can pass on the favour to someone. It's happened a few times on the board lately and it always warms my heart! Nick, I didn't read it as sarcastic at all. You are always extremely helpful when ever I have a question and I thank you for that. I think I want to try and make an artificial carp mouth complete with suck and blow function (oOH Matron) to test rigs out with! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalthegooner Posted July 18, 2015 Report Share Posted July 18, 2015 I think option 1 will work better, more often, whether they suck or bite. On the underwater films most fish come in at an angle, not straight down, when they are feeding. The angle of the hook in option 1 is more likely to hit flesh after a good suck and blow ( ) as well as if the fish come straight in and clamp down on the bait, in my opinion. Ddg, can you fish option 1 and option 2, side by side to compare results? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ddgx Posted July 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2015 Another interesting thought dal, nice one. Eventually yes I could fish them side by side, but not this weekend as where I'm going it's 1 rod only unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted July 18, 2015 Report Share Posted July 18, 2015 Cm, had a look at a write up by Lee Burden about a rig named the 'unfair rig'. At the moment I can't figure in my head how it behaves differently compared with having the weight after the pivot point below the hook. I think I'd certainly like to tie it and see how it behaves in some water later. Looks a hybrid between the 360 and a hinge stiff, for me personally there is to much going on with the rig itself, I would keep it simple to start with, having said that there is something in the whole really short very stiff pop up section as the flick rig that Ian Russell uses a lot has a similar section. On the underwater films most fish come in at an angle, not straight down, when they are feeding. The angle of the hook in option 1 is more likely to hit flesh after a good suck and blow ( ) as well as if the fish come straight in and clamp down on the bait, in my opinion. I agree with this and i believe that when you are using a low sitting pop up the fish do not know that it is not on the bottom (this theroy is taken from experiences when diving when looking square on to some items it is very tricky to tell if they are on the bottom) and as the home in on the bait it catches them by surprise and flies straight back into the mouth salokcinnodrog 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted July 18, 2015 Report Share Posted July 18, 2015 Forgot to add the image Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salokcinnodrog Posted July 18, 2015 Report Share Posted July 18, 2015 Forgot to add the image I'd be really interested to see pics if you have any of how it sits in the water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted July 18, 2015 Report Share Posted July 18, 2015 To be honest I haven't used that rig before was just a suggestion for the poster, I still think there is something with the short stiff section at the hook end that makes it very tricky for the carp to deal with. That is not the best pic i have seen of it normally the stiff section has a nice smooth curve to it, so i'm guessing the hook will lay horizontal to the bait due to the length/weight of the longshank hook. I don't use longshank hooks due to the size of the fish i fish for they have the potential to cause mouth damage but the principal should work with a normal out turned eye hook of the anglers preference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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