woodchester17 Posted April 14, 2012 Report Share Posted April 14, 2012 Hello one and all, hoping someone can give me a little help with rigs. I fish a very old silty estate lake,last season was my first year there and I was using the helicopter rig (some call it the chod) but having lost 14 fish on it and some of the fish I landed had such light hook holds I wondered how I ever got them in I need to change my set up and am looking for suggestions. Like I have said I fish a real silty old place and presentation is hard work, I've just come back from France fishing a hard clay pit, had lead clip on 2 rods and inline running rig on 1, the bite indication on the running rig was unbelievable and would love to use it this season so I suppose my question is how do I go about using a inline running rig,casting 100 yards whilst presenting a bait in nasty silt! So desperate to get away from the helicopter set up although the hinge stiff rig looks like it might give better hook holds than the 'chod' set up with the extra movement it has?? I know nick is a fan of running rigs like me!! Thanks in advance for your help. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lessthanphil Posted April 14, 2012 Report Share Posted April 14, 2012 My first port of call would probably be to spend a good amount of time looking for a clearer harder area amongst all of the silt, either with a marker or just casting a lead around and feeling for it hitting the bottom. If there really are no clear areas and the silt is quite soft, to fish running rigs, you'll need to make sure that you use a large running ring (have a look at the Solar ones) as a smaller one could quite easily get clogged up with silt and make your running rig effectively a fixed or semi fixed setup. Don't use fluro/stiff hooklinks (unless you're fishing a choddy or stiff hinge rig) as they may end up sticking up out of the silt at a really unusual angle (due to the lead sinking into the silt) and the fish will sus you. Either use a supple braid all the way through, or a coated one with a decent amount stripped back, possibly a bit longer than you would normally fish on gravel too. Feather the lead all the way down through the water to stop it diving deep into the silt on landing too. Use a lighter lead than you may otherwise use as well. The main thing is to make sure your bait isn't burying itself in the silt and is sitting naturally. You may even want to try some 'natural' baits as the fish will predominantly be feeding on bloodworm and such if the entire lakebed is silty. These would be things such as worm/maggot or even prawns. Also, the chod or 'silt' rig is slightly different from a standard heli rig (although the lead setup is similar) and was actually designed to fish in this kind of situation. Perhaps you're not quite setting it up correctly? It's never given me anything but very solid hook holds in the botom lip (and is known for it's potent hooking ability). It's used wrongly a lot of the time, but this sounds like an ideal situation for its use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salokcinnodrog Posted April 14, 2012 Report Share Posted April 14, 2012 I'd actually avoid Inline Leads for running rigs. The nose of the lead may dive into the silt and prevent the lead from running anyway, plus if it hits a harder patch may damage the hooklink. I'd stick with the running set-up, and even use Leadcore, but NOT in the way you'd think, instead making a lead link, so that the run ring is attached to the lead by a length of leadcore: This rig is one for use in Weedy waters, it also works in Silty waters where the lead is sinking into the Silt, leaving the hooklink about the silt.Paternosted Lead attached by a Finer Breaking Strain mono, so in the event of the Lead snagging up it will break free. While Chod/Helicopter set-ups have been advocated for using in Silty waters, it has actually been pointed out by people like Tim Paisley in his book Big Carp that bomb-on-the-end-of-the line set-ups can produce a number of hookpulls due to the angle of pull being across the hook, leading to the possibility of hooks opening out, or even levering themselves out under pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodchester17 Posted April 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2012 Thank you both for your help, but would the lead link not tangle with hook length on the big chuck as they both hang down together? I'm avoiding the chod like a heart attack I'm afraid, just can't risk losing anymore fish. The last one was a upper 30 that I hooked at 90 yards, it rolled on surface 30 yards out and then all went slack . . . . . . . . . . Thanks again to you both. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salokcinnodrog Posted April 14, 2012 Report Share Posted April 14, 2012 Thank you both for your help, but would the lead link not tangle with hook length on the big chuck as they both hang down together? I'm avoiding the chod like a heart attack I'm afraid, just can't risk losing anymore fish. The last one was a upper 30 that I hooked at 90 yards, it rolled on surface 30 yards out and then all went slack . . . . . . . . . . Thanks again to you both. Mark No, the lead pulls everything behind it. A method I do to make doubly sure is make up a PVA bag, put the hook into the bottom corner, and lick and stick the top of the bag around the lead link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodchester17 Posted April 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2012 Genius, roll on June 16th!! Gunna call it the slack dog rig!! Ta mukka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodchester17 Posted April 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2012 Thinking about it, I suppose a slim pva funnel web of stick mix threaded the length of hook length would eliminate tangles completely don't you think? Running rigs, going back to the future! Maybe it will become fashion instead of filling our lakes up dumping a really toxic (lead) substance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lessthanphil Posted April 15, 2012 Report Share Posted April 15, 2012 Yep, that would help if you'd rather not use a bag with the lead and hooklink inside. Also making sure you hit the clip on the cast and feeling the lead down will kick the hooklink outwards and help with presentation/avoiding tangles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salokcinnodrog Posted April 15, 2012 Report Share Posted April 15, 2012 A PVA bag often slows down the "sinking" into silt of the end tackle as it slows down the impact on the lakebed, a stick mix will work as well. Just a thought though; if you bag up the hookbait it may actually stop the lead sinking as far into the silt as it is help up by the PVA bag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodchester17 Posted April 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 again nick and co , thanks alot. mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garysj01 Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 hi what about lengthening the hair rig by a couple of inches, when casting in to silt the hair will usually get dragged into the silt with the lead. Sounds like the fish are finding the bait but maybe the lead is plugging into the silt with only a couple of inches of the hair rig exposed, this is why your getting the takes but a very light hook hold. Also try a different lead arrangement, still use an inline lead, but fish it so it comes off on the take like ali hamidi from korda fishes the zig rig. ill try and do an illustration for you if need be, anyway hope this helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodchester17 Posted April 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 hello! yeah i diagram would be good thank you, however nicks idea of the link on lead to sink in silt is great. going to thread funnel web up length of hooklink and thread pva nuggets longways with a needle down the ledger link, would never tangle in a month of sundays. i like the sound of yor idea except i hate dumping leads unless i really have to (snag fishing etc) as i have a feeling in years to come fisheries are going to pay for anglers dumping tons of lead in water!! also with a inline i feel sensitivity would be lost as when the lead digs into the silt would cause a restriction on the line being pulled through it. another reason why i dont want to drop the lead is that its important to use a real heavy lead so it acts as a anchor/ pivot point. impossible to get a drop back! mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garysj01 Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 Its usually a rig that is used with a zig rig or when fishing up against snags if your using inline leads. It occured to me maybe the fish could get rid of the hook using the lead if you know what i mean. Ill try to sort a picture out for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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