Gazlaaar

What's your preferred rigs at the moment fella's? I like my old trusted bottom rig and my variation on the Multi The bottom rig I use either with paste wrapped boilie or a small pva mesh bait attached to the hair. My variation on the Multi is usually fished with matching pop ups to my free offerings. So whats your's?

Ive checked the baits this morning, no real change, mind you there are in a cupboard with plenty of ventilation. A couple of pieces I ready over the past, like keeping the baits at a certain temperature in a warm flask will encourage the fermentation process. Plus looking at what the yeast feeds on is predominantly sugars. I was experimenting with making soaks the other month, liquid glucose based, its a very easy exercise 2 parts sugar, 1 part water, bring to the boil and simmer until it all goes clear and leave to rest. Seeing as yeast needs sugars to feed on, maybe theres a connection there, mind you, this liquid does make baits rock hard after a good soaking. One other aspect ive read about was rehydrating baits with oils can actually block the ingress of water into a bait, as the oil forms a barrier turning your bait into like a marble. Ive always been a bit dubious with the rehydration process, as dry boilies will take on moisture very quickly once submerged, better let the nutrients leach out than encapsulate the whole lot with oil. Id probably suggest a couple of hours max soaking before fishing, anyway that was just something else ive read about while looking at other bits and pieces.

There you go Turnip, be it right or wrong that's my outlook on bait construction, still a world of info to learn,

You wouldn't want to leave that fermenting would you lol

That's a completely different kind of milk lol

Ive just see thus picture on twitter, not sure if its a wind up or not, but if its true, well, ill leave you to comment

Cheers Nige, it was a biscuit recipe that gave me the idea believe it or not, lol

Growler Juice by any chance, or are we talking different people?

Your probably right Phil, your certainly right about it being imported from Spain, they even used the same bottles, just stuck another label on it I would think there would be some fats present as well as sugars (carbs) and a few nutrients. I made them with coke, milk, all sorts, ive even made tiger milk, thats nice In fact, this will please carpmachine, if it wasn't for boilies or steamies in my case id still be on Tigers, but I like to think I can offer a bit more nutrition, and I like making baits and the whole science about it. And even if I am wrong, at least its down on here to show others and hopefully steer others in the right direction

Sorry I meant smooth as in smell and taste

Just to add Phil My reasoning behind taste and smell are Tiger Nuts, why do they work? How do they work? Nobody really knows the answer, is it taste, is it smell because they have very little in the way of attractors and nutrients, but fish love em, so much so ive seen carp pooing them out and other fish coming up and hoovering the lot up. Personally I like to think its a combination of both taste and smell, they are definitely sweet and they definitely smell sweet. There are very few mentions about the actual texture and taste of a bait, but it is there from a long time ago

Phil they do, I totally agree with you, its not so much the taste as the smoothness of the whole package im looking for

Nick You are right with Mainline, the Activ 8 was the stand out bait way back then, the problem is these enzymes are particularly hard to maintain and store for any length of time in a bait, which is why its never really caught on as big as some trends. ABS do some, Nash's The Key, looks like its enzyme rich, and I did notice the harder outer skin and softer middle on the baits which is what triggered my train of thought off. You know me im no expert, and can only talk with common sense, but when Keith Sykes talked about the key saying they did denature some of the enzymes through the cooking process, a bell rang in my head about reading the effects of blanching, a quick hot dip. Cooking the outside but not the inner, its the only way I can think of that doesn't denature all of the enzymes, leaving them to work their way out. Well that's my thinking anyway lol

The mix of yeast was 30ml warm water 1 tsp granulated sugar 2 tsp Active Yeast This was just to activate the yeast, I put a towel over the glass and waited 10 minutes to see if it foamed up and it did, then just put it in with the eggs at the start of mixing. Im an old fuss pot, when it comes to smelling bait and probably wrong so for doing it, but unless I like the smell or more importantly taste, I go right off it, I battled for a long time with minamino, multimino, nutramino as I was constantly fighting to get a smooth blend. Elevating flavour labels and so on, it caught fish but I wasn't happy until a good friend put me on to the amino blend 365, it blends so much better, smells and tastes smoother, but there is something still missing, an essential oil, ive tried bergamot, black pepper, all sorts, even peppermint, but nothing yet, I am due to get some samples if geranium and juniper oil, but we'll see. You could definitely smell and taste the yeast in this experimental batch, its not as pungent as I thought it may be. Plus ive been looked into blending msg with the caramel label I have, which I have seen a few albeit cake and biscuit recipes with caramel and salt, but ill do little testers and see how it goes

Its a birdfood base, Per pound 20ml amino blend 365 4ml caramel elite 1ml sweetner 1gm betaine hcl The texture hasn't changed in the baits, the paste had dried up a little as expected, its definitely starting to smell a bit, more so than normal, ill give them a couple of days to see the reaction, if there is one, but they are starting to kick up a little

Yeah I see your point, this was really just an exercise to see what happens to the bait itself, maybe ill do a bit more looking before I think about fishing with it

In hindsight, the baits are a little soft and maybe the inclusion of some Albumin may harden up the outer skin some what, after all it does work nicely on cork ball pop ups that are steamed for the same amount of time. I have left a pinch of paste and a couple of baits out on a plate to see what happens and the rest are in the freezer.

I don't wish to be the centre of any conflict, im happy enough in my pursuits to except other views, its fine I did a little experiment earlier to activate the yeast with a little warm water and granulated sugar Plus I have made a batch and steamed at 90 seconds rather than my usual 3 minutes, the outer is as normally cooked but the inner is still paste. In an attempt to not totally deactivate the yeast. Plus I have made some paste, maybe I am barking up the wrong tree but without experiments I have no idea

Can I ask why your poo pooing a general interest in bait science. I have a general interest into what works and why, I general thirst for knowledge, it may be your opinion that its all poppycock but to others there may well be some vital information they are looking for right here. Surely that is what forums are all about, sharing, educating, I take your basic point but there is a more technical side that people find genuinely interesting.

Maybe im barking up the wrong tree, but, there is some evidence to suggest active yeast can be quite good on a couple of levels even if it isn't activated. Pre Digested Fishmeal has a richer enzyme profile from what ive read, but it wouldn't suit my base.

My investigations have lead me into a few different directions, monosodium glutamate, brewers yeast and a few other aspects. Im still looking and find the whole thing fascinating, I seem to be drawn by the brewers yeast path at the moment, all to do with the fermentation process, im sure you know. Just a little unclear if its beneficial before heating or after. I don't boil my baits a I might add, mine are steamed, the process seemingly retains a bit more of the ingredients and nutrients, although don't quote me on that, nothing I do is carried out under laboratory conditions.

The Leadcore acts as a weight in its own right, in fact any leader will act in the same way. SS you bring up a good point with tethered fish, I can't remember seeing one with the lead attached. There will be some no doubt, but the majority of fish will just be trailing around leaders. Another point to make, is I've gone right off plastic baits, and ive seen more and more fisheries adopting their banning. Just one question to Phil, as you are thinking of building your own pool, as you probably have a slightly different prospective of fish care than the rest of us. Knowing what you know about the carp fishing fraternity and its many wonderful inventions, what would you ban on your water?

A lot of people have poo, poo'd the idea of leaving the lead on, its simple physics, you need the weight of the lead to pull the leader off. If I told you what I was fishing over you'd understand the reasoning behind this train of thought. Ive never really fished pop ups a lot, but the rig works really well for me.

Sorry im not sure how to put up pictures