severnslayer

Interesting thread!! Of course the exact reasons for this happening may be many and varied! In brief... Having come across this problem in the past, fishing on very silty venues where the fish appear to have much softer mouths than say gravel pit fish....the single most effective measure was the correct choice of hook. In that without a doubt the short shank , wide gape in turned point hooks are far superior when this problem arises. Back in the day when I first had this happen as a teenager ...After a lot of experimentation I came across the old original owner spades.....which quite simply changed my landing rate from about 50% to probably 90/95% over night!! So I always would go for that type of pattern (run out of the owner spades !! ;-( lol) if I am faced with soft mouthed fish / a water with a history of hookpulls etc Of course there are many other factors but the shape/pattern of hook is in my opinion the most important. Good luck

exactly, well said!! Good fishing.

Well Striker we must have nearly crossed paths alot and always just missed one another, I know the Montereau area well, I think the 80lb plus mirror caught in the 80's by that French guy was caught there just up into the River Yonne!! Mark Law and John Baker used to fish around the area at that time as well!! A lot of fish went walkies into various lakes, not just on that stretch either!! I always raise a smile reading on the various forum's when fishery owners start harping on about the rules on their lakes that protect 'their' fish, when quite probably many of these fish have dubious origins in the first place, its all double standards!! Some of the blokes running some of the pay lakes have a lot to answer for, no wonder the locals view the English in some areas with extreme caution!! One of my pals lives near Montereau, but doesn't fish locally because that stretch was destroyed by people taking the fish as you say! Only last week he emailed me to say another English run fishery had fish in it that he has personally caught out of the Seine in the past!! Its all pounds, shillings and pence to them,(sorry...euros) they don't care or give a monkies about what they are doing. They spoil it for the guys who are trying to run a respectable business. As for us Striker, we r out on our own on this forum mate!! No adventure, no experimentation, no free thought here, just a copy of total cr*p under one arm ,( sorry I mean total carp) a packet of ready tied chod rigs, three foot of leadcore (ready spliced of course) a can of stella and a lake full of well caught fish waiting for their turn to pose in front of the camera for the tenth time that year!! If that floats your boat fair enough...it would sink mine... I'll stick to a bit of the unknown thanks!! p.s I actually like Stella!

That's absolutely true Moorsey, when we first fished on the Seine (about 1995) we had to put in a considerable amount of effort to catch, and then it took about 3 years (about six x 1 week trips ) to get our first 40 plus!!! I completely understand, one of my mates works in a factory, he has a family and only one week to use for fishing....so he goes to a paylake not the Seine ...its a no brainer really for most people. When I started carping in the mid Eighties (i'm sure you will relate to this Moorsey) you had to fish your socks off to catch a twenty, if you could get on a water that held them!! A twenty was massive then, decent tackle was much thinner on the ground, good information about carp fishing was like gold dust and foreign fishing was only just starting to be reported about (i.e Maddocks/Hutchy at St Cassein)...Now you can start carping 1 minute and be holding up a 40, 50 or even bigger the next!!! Something wrong there somewhere!!! Everything is on a plate now for the carp angler, ready made bait, rigs, books, tackle, and waters to fish!! etc etc I know to many this is progress and things move on....true... But...this is why no one has a sense of adventure/experimentation these days, our ability to think for ourselves is being eroded, carp angling has produced vast quantities of robotic anglers that all do exactly the same things without ever questioning what they are doing, like sheep following the shepherd (i.e the press/top flight anglers trying to sell/promote products for their company!!!) I know this is a ramble and I sound like 'a miserable old git' which i'm not (by the way) but sometimes progress isn't necessarily all good! I' ve depressed myself now.......How much for a week at yours Moorsey ??? lol

Of course Keith its in your interest to say that, isn't it!!(Obviously I appreciate business is business etc etc) However you are quite right people must make up their own minds on what type of fishing they want. I'm glad many choose to go to lakes like yours because it makes the type of fishing i like even better!! I have no doubt you provide them with a very good all round experience, and good luck to you and your clients!! Although on a purely personal level, I find it a little sad that most anglers seem to have so little pioneering spirit in them, but hey each to there own!!

Sounds ideal!! Hope you have a few !!!

I think most people are becoming aware that anything incorporating leadcore is potentially dangerous. Even if used correctly, if the line breaks above the leader the fish is left towing leadcore - the weight of which keeps pressure on the hook making it harder to for the fish to get rid of the hook and therefore the leader. Also the broken away leader will eventually gather debris and start to get clogged up as the fish tows it around - worse case snagging/tethering the fish completely. Even with so called 'safe' helicopter rigs (even when put together properly) they may work in theory / on your bivvy floor before casting...but... all it needs is a bit of rubbish in the water - weed or what ever to catch around the beads and the hooklink can't discharge effectively in the event of a break off. In my opinion leaders are dangerous full stop, whatever they are, and should only be used when absolutely necessary (shock for long casts or snag for severe snags). Weighted tubing in all its forms is so good now as an alternative for leadcore and / or flurocarbon line for close to medium range eliminates the need for lead core completely. I think the only reason for leadcores' continued popularity is because of chod' rigs and well known anglers continuing to promote its use. Do most of us use benthooks now?..... no!!!!! Leadcore should be viewed in the same light! Take a look here http://www.carptalk-online.co.uk/images/onetoomany.pdf Any rig can be dangerous - true, and a carp could tether itself even on line without any leader attached. But surely the more knots you have between the hook and the rod the more the potential for something unwanted to happen!! Isn't it strange that many fishery owners ban leaders...( look at the link are you surprised they ban them!!) yet tackle companies still defend them!!! Unfortunately with so many 'vested' interests in the sales of carp fishing tackle, most of the time it is impossible to get a true unbiased view....very difficult for the new anglers coming into the sport!

Totally agree with most of what Striker has said. This section should be called 'pay lakes in France' !!! Nice to see someone wanting to river fish!! It seems anglers have no pioneering spirit left anymore, they just act like sheep following each other to the lastest 'in fashion' fishery that has sprung up, with instant 60 plus fish ( that have appeared by magic!!! lol) Most of these lakes get more hammer the some English waters! Mind you it suits me and others like me that never pay to fish an 'English' lake in France, keeps the masses off the River systems and untapped lakes (not that the average numpty would catch anything unless they went to a venue where they virtually wipe your bottom for you) The Seine, yonne, mayenne, moselle, soane, loire, lot, tarn, garonne etc etc etc all have night fishing areas, pick an area, do your research, find a local tackle shop get hold of the local night fishing maps (they change every year) parlez a little 'francais', make friends locally, have a good boat/engine/sounder/life jacket and your away! I have fished this way in France for 15 years, and on the big rivers in the last 10 yrs I have probably come across less than 10 other carp anglers and all but two of them were French!! Made several really good french friendships which opened up an incredible amount of information that I would have never found out about!! The Rivers all across France and europe in general are fantastic places to fish!! Perhaps some of you can Live a little and Discover the real France not an English fishery in France!!