ahh what a relief to have a reply to this, i was begining to think no one could help so thanks. I'm really glad you said margin fishing too because i love to margin fish as my casting isnt fabulous. Could you tell me is that the same for the rest of the big fish waters? and when you said about simple rigs would a straight hair rig with braid work? also what are the make up of the lakes the bottom is it silty? thanks