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And this is my point, if they were cruising about top layers you wouldnt be getting liners and if your line was pinned down it stands to reason the only way to get a liner was if as you say were bumping into line as it enters the water. So i would put a bait under the rod tips on which ever rod you had liners Sent from my LG-H955 using Tapatalk

Korda Overpriced? Who would of thunk it? Various manufacturers do have different sizes. Fox I know produce a couple of different rig ring sizes, and there are some tear drop shaped ones around by companies like Solar. Drennan/ESP and Gardner could be worth looking at I use Fox and the Solar teardrop, but bear in mind I'm using size 4 hooks most of the time

That's the thing Phil, you never know where the fish are. They could be cruising around just under the surface a few yards out just where your line enters the water, they could be a foot in front of your bait mooching around the bottom, they could be swimming around 4 feet down halfway across. You could spend all day experimenting and not get anywhere. I just look on it as it's nice to know there are fish out there somewhere. I've never had a liner from one that's swum around the back of my rig though.