dave_askew Posted April 23, 2009 Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 if not useing flourocarbon and useing mono i tend to roll the link round my hand and make a large loop then tie it together with pva tape allowing and easier cast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louis84 Posted April 23, 2009 Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 Or just put the hookbait in an empty bait bucket with i piece of PVA foam covering the hook point. Seems to work fine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tryzard Posted April 29, 2009 Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 Here's a couple of links for anyone wanting to know about zig rigs: http://www.totalcarpmagazine.com/Videos/category_7/video_96/ http://www.anglersnet.co.uk/cheap-fishing-tackle/free-downloads/carp-fishing/the-zig-rig/prod_96.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papabill Posted April 29, 2009 Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 cheers for the links mate, awsome!!! bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zander1 Posted April 29, 2009 Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 The video talks about not using hooks with intured eyes as it can break the hooklink. I wouldn't worry about that too much- ive never had that problem- i use wide gapes, fox arma point sssp's which have inturned eyes, or drennan super specialists that have straight eyes, of fox sscs and havent had the zig break near the hook. Go for the finest gauge wire you can get away with, fox ssbp's are a great pattern, but too heavier gauge for zig hooks- hence why i like the widegapes in this shape/pattern even though the korda hooks aren't as good as arma points in general. (i could word that better but cba) BTW, The Fox arma point hooks are made by Owner- need i say more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonybranno Posted April 29, 2009 Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 Like i said i have never caught a fish on a zig but i do prefer using a size 10 Korda Choddy hook because the baited hook sits perfectly IMO. I would NEVER used an inturned eye with a mono hooklink because you are closing the gape of the hook which will make it harder for it to take hold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zander1 Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 This seems to work. When the foam pulls the hooklink up from the lead its as tensioned and the hook sits like a "claw" dependant on how you set the hook/bait. Just literally tied that one up. just by changing the amount of wraps around the knot less knot you can create more aggressive or less aggressive "claws" and make the hook hidden by the bait. Each to their own, i wouldn't mind using an out turned eye hook but i prefer inturned eyes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonybranno Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 Just to let you know Zander, you are tightening up on the mono hooklink yourself. You may find that once you are actually using the zig on the bank, that the hook doesnt sit exactly the way you are showing there cos the foam can only put so much tension in the mono hooklink. Once again though, its a method that does deserve some experimentation to compare results and over the summer i will have 1 rod on a zig just to try and gain some confidence in the method. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fenboy Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 i was casting out a 23 ft zig rig yesterday. My god did i have fun just getting ready for the cast! How do you land the fish on that ? you must have a long landing net handle cause when the lead is at the tip ring the fish can still be 15 -20 ft out !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigewoodcock Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 i was casting out a 23 ft zig rig yesterday. My god did i have fun just getting ready for the cast! How do you land the fish on that ? you must have a long landing net handle cause when the lead is at the tip ring the fish can still be 15 -20 ft out !! I always use an inline lead that is set up so it will drop off on the take. Makes playing a fish easy, like free lining Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zander1 Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 Just to let you know Zander, you are tightening up on the mono hooklink yourself. You may find that once you are actually using the zig on the bank, that the hook doesnt sit exactly the way you are showing there cos the foam can only put so much tension in the mono hooklink. Once again though, its a method that does deserve some experimentation to compare results and over the summer i will have 1 rod on a zig just to try and gain some confidence in the method. Just to let you know Tony, there isnt alot in that,probably less than when its in the water as the baiting needle was just to get the bait to hold the hook flat so you could see the hooking arrangement, i wasnt holding the other end of the line, it was just overhanging the box and table. Catch a few pasties on it, you'll soon know if its working right or not- you'll have a cracking day on a runs water later on this year with them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonybranno Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 Yes i see what you are trying to explain but just remember. That small bit of foam is holding up a hook plus maybe upto a 10 foot length of mono hooklink. So to think that your hook is gonna be positioned "exactly" like that when you are using mono, down turned eyed hooks and your foam positioned half way along the shank and not on the bend is asking a bit too much mate and i dont agree with your explanation. When its out in the lake i still think that the hook shank could be positioned more horizontally than you think (maybe even with the hook point lower than the eye) and the only way to be absolutely sure that it isnt is to don scuba gear and have a look PS, i dont do pastie bashing either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zander1 Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 How will you have any confidence in your set-up unless you catch a few on it???? Say your on a water where you can catch 1 fish a month if that. You get your bite on the zig and loose the fish/ don't connect with it because you in your wisdom thought it would work the way you set it up and it doesn't. What do you do ??? wait until the next bite where it fails again??? its like fishing blind. Besides- like a day on a runs water will hurt your ego. You could go on a runs water for the day- refine your set-up. You'll have confidence in them and problem solved I know my set-up works, The pic was just tied up quick to show the general idea of how an intured hook is fine. My proper arrangement is more refined dependant on the buoyancy and size of the bait being used. (balancing bait and hook size etc) You can never tie the perfect zig- you will not connect with every run even on the runs water- 28 runs and 26 fish isn't bad though. The carp will always have several feet of line to play with before he gets hooked. Id like to try a zig using a fluro and see if the stiffness (compared to mono) hooks more fish but while my fine mono seems to do the trick I will stick with it Personally I find a running rig setup (on a fixed length zig) with a tight line and some weight on the swinger to be the most efficient and sensitive set-up. I have a large bore swivel/runring on the zig, a rubber bead ( the ones that are elongated to cover the hooklink swivel as well) and an anti-tangle sleeve on the hook link as im currently fishing over weed and so the running properties don't work as well. On a clean bottom, standard swivel on the lead, small rubber bead hook link tied on to the mainline swivel with a loop (or quick link etc) and no antitangle sleeve. Job done. I like to avoid adjustable zigs as they tend to tangle, I have still used the adjustable zigs to good effect though. You will probably still try to shoot me down. Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zander1 Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 You already know this though and so I needn't have bothered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonybranno Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 How will you have any confidence in your set-up unless you catch a few on it???? Fair point and i agree with that mate. Thing is though my syndicate has got me well and truly by the nads so at the moment all my thoughts are on that and its occupants. But considering zigs do work on there very well, it shouldnt be long before something picks one up if i experiment. Like i said, im not putting too much emphasis into using zigs just yet but i will try one if and when the conditions dictate. All i need is one take mate then i will be sorted, confidence will then be there. I know my set-up works, The pic was just tied up quick to show the general idea of how an intured hook is fine. My proper arrangement is more refined dependant on the buoyancy and size of the bait being used. (balancing bait and hook size etc) Once again mate its down to confidence. If your set up works for you then great carry on with it and keep hauling, im just trying to explain to you my thoughts on it, thats all. Personally I find a running rig setup (on a fixed length zig) with a tight line and some weight on the swinger to be the most efficient and sensitive set-up. Now that is interesting. Everytime you read about using a zig, most articles advocate the use of a light semi fixed lead but obviously the fish has a VERY long way to travel before you get an indication. And if the fish doesnt move the lead at all, then you will have no way of knowing if you have got a take anyway. But can running leads be used in weed? I was told thats a complete no no for the safety aspect. Id like to try a zig using a fluro and see if the stiffness (compared to mono) hooks more fish but while my fine mono seems to do the trick I will stick with it The only reservations of using flouro for zigs is that its too heavy. On short lengths, you may get away with it and your bait might be bouyant enough, but on a longer hooklength i can see it causing you problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtz Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 Like a rotary letter all this, few good points raised though. Yes an inturned eye will close the gape, i prefer straight eyes and straight points for my ziggies, although there's not an abundance of patterns suitable for this, downturned eyes increase the gape even more and things such as esp stiff riggers would be good, but they don't come in smaller sizes. So sometimes when using smaller strong patterns i'm stuck with putting a small peice of clear silicon over the eye, which increases the gape. As tony says, fluoro is a no go, well for me anyway. Pre-stretched monos such as preston powerline are spot on . For fixed zigs small inlines are my preference, if it's weedy then patterns such as the korda distance inline work well as they pull through the weed easier, or fish it drop off style with a 6" (inch!!!) leadcore leader. When using tight lines etc i've always found there to be not much of a difference between semi-fixed or running leads, just still strike at every 2 or 3 bleeps, although i will always use a running lead on adjustable zigs, for obvious reasons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zander1 Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 TBH Tony, Fishing in weed has created a few problems that im working on, to refine my set up. Lead wise- im unsure of what is safer- at the end of the day it doesnt matter wether you use an in line or pendant lead, running or semi fixed it is still on the mainline and will be covered in weed. On my bottom bait rigs i use an in line lead running and on the zig i use a pendant style lead. I have no idea which is safer and tbh i dont know which is better as ive only just started fishing a weedy water. I prefer pendant style leads if there is bottom debris (run of the mill light chod) but weed seems different, the in line lead seemed to pick up marginally less weed than the pendant lead but i dont know if the mechanics of the rig will be affected by it (the lead pulling the hooklink down further in the weed). With the pendant style lead i am hoping that the eye of the swivel will sit above the weed where possible but tbh i dont think this is happening which means both set-ups aren't effective in weed running- if i were to use a bolt rig id use a semi fixed in line lead but i will not fish a semi fixed zig. this is where my dilemma comes in- i haven't got a clue what to do for the best. This was the exact zig rig set-up that i used (for the first time i might add) last week in the weedy water. My normal set-up gathered far too much weed around the components when i cast out and so i tried to make the set-up more slender. I know the hooking arrangement works so its just the lead set-up that i need to play around with. (i struggled to get a marker float -the korda stem kit- to come up in some areas as the weed is so thick) Normally, on a clean bottom, i would have a quick link or loop and no anti-tangle sleeve but as i was fishing in weed i didnt want that extra pivot as there would be a good chance it would be clogged with weed and wouldn't help at all- just another snagging point. However, with out this point/hinge- the hooklink doesnt come straight up from the lead- instead there is a slight curve from the end of the sleeve (as its a tight line set-up). May have to put the hinge back in. Lead wise, I hope that the massive bore of the running link will help the safety and sensitivity of the set-up rather than the thinner bore of an in line lead or normal lead swivel- (even the korda "big eye" ones on their leads are smaller than that nash running link). Will it work??? I cant say for certain, weed is new to me. But i like a challenge Your thoughts anyone???? (a bit of background info on the pool- 4 acre, gin clear 26 rig shy carp- easily spooked buy anything and everything, 9ft deepest- average of 8ft and a few shallower bays. Thick blanket of weed) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giles95 Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 absolutely waste of time in my opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zander1 Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 Horses for courses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigewoodcock Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 TBH Tony, Fishing in weed has created a few problems that im working on, to refine my set up. Your thoughts anyone???? (a bit of background info on the pool- 4 acre, gin clear 26 rig shy carp- easily spooked buy anything and everything, 9ft deepest- average of 8ft and a few shallower bays. Thick blanket of weed) Have a think about your marker set up. Why is one of those steams used? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zander1 Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 Im using the stem on the marker. I used to use a wire trace and a cork. Ahh right, Put the running rig on a boom???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigewoodcock Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 Im using the stem on the marker. I used to use a wire trace and a cork. Ahh right, Put the running rig on a boom???? I would still lean towards a lead clip for fishing in dense weed though. Saying that, if I could find them, I would seriously consider using a runring that Jemsue suggested a while ago which will ditch the lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonybranno Posted May 2, 2009 Report Share Posted May 2, 2009 Zander i know what you mean about fishing in weed. My syndicate is chokka with the stuff in places and its a steep learning curve for me also regarding presentation. Got some ideas to try this weekend though and im well looking forward to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tryzard Posted May 2, 2009 Report Share Posted May 2, 2009 Doesn't anyone else use the sub-surface float method fished with a running lead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zander1 Posted May 2, 2009 Report Share Posted May 2, 2009 Doesn't anyone else use the sub-surface float method fished with a running lead? Is that the adjustable zig??? I know a few areas where i have obserevd the fish but there is only one spot where i managed to induce a take on a bottom bait (wasn't a proper run), zigs are the way to go- i had a take off a zig using a drennan super specialist hook and i failed to connect in time (don't know if the weed caused much of a delay in striking????) Tell you what though Tony- Bring on tomorrow, im going back and reckon ill have a 20 on the mat off a zig. beep beep beeeeeeeeeeeep!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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