mooseman

Bottom bait on a Chod rig? Ha ha yes, I have to describe it that way as everyone these days knows what a Chod rig is. What I was describing used to be called a helicopter rig of course. Ideal for the situation that the OP described especially at distance, but a more natural presentation than a 2" popup like the traditional Chod. And different to what most if not all others on the lake will be fishing. Even if you're being watched closely because you are catching, no one will know that you are fishing a bottom bait... Bream? Slimy 'orrible things... Never had my longed for double out of Horseshoe despite trying at least once every season. What are we talking "Specimen sized" here then?

Joe I'd be very happy fishing into normal brown silt so go for it. You might have to think a bit more about the end tackle for the distance rod to ensure you are happy with the way it is fishing, but all things being equal if you feather/stop the lead well as it hits, and apply a few of the tricks, you should be fine. Maybe try a chod type setup with the lead on an extension and the top bead well back, but with a bottom bait? Regarding the Black, rotting type silt my experiences are very different to some of you guys. I'll confidently fish into pretty much any silty area but I can't recall ever having a fish from an area where the silt was sludgy Black and smells strongly of decay. I'm not talking just your normal smelly mud here that is often alive with goodies, but the stuff that smells of sewerage. Places like right under overhanging hardwood trees where the leaf matter is really thick. Worst I ever encountered was when there was an algal bloom, and all the weed died in the lake and rotted on the bottom to a Black slimy layer. No one took a fish off the bottom for weeks/months.

Hi Joe. I've fished very old silty waters and there are several things that you can do to help yourself. Providing distance is not an issue, go with as light a lead as you can. Put a 5/6 bait stringer around the lead in a necklace, this will slow the lead down (On one very silty area I used to put a polo type cat biscuit in between each bait for even more effect) a huge amount when it hits the surface. Fish your hooklink in a PVA bag of whatever you like plus a foam nugget or two, purely for the same reason, this will really slow down the descent of the end tackle to the lakebed. I've never had a problem with inlines, and just tend to extend the hooklink (Always really soft braid) length to suit. If you are worried about the hooklink sitting up unnaturally because the lead has buried, then you need to do more to prevent that happening as per the above. One thing you can do is make a rig with soft braid at the lead end and a section of leadcore (Or alternative) at the hook end, this WILL NOT sit up off the bottom, try it for yourself. Last thing, try not to worry about it, so long as you are not fishing into Black silt that smells strongly of decay, the fish will be happy to bury their heads up to the gill covers. Think bloodworm.

I know, sorry. Can't help it I like to share! Old news now anyway Gordon, there are many more "Not common knowledge" secrets lurking...

Ginger try this to pep up your pellets. Take a good strong bag, 1kg of pellets, mix 20ml molasses in a bottle with 80ml warm water, shake to mix liquids, add to bag. Blow up the bag and shake to coat all the pellets, keep shaking and the sides of the bag should go clear again. Use within a couple of days or freeze. (Works really well with mixers!

I even posted on the thread you put up of your trip!!! Must stop drinking so much home brew........

Ah... I'll get my coat then... Taxi!

Just to add my thoughts. Tubing/putty/shrink tube etc will all get destroyed overnight if there is a food smell near them. The rig has to be such that they cannot tangle it, spin the bait around the hook etc, or you will wake up to heartbreak every morning. For hookbaits a soaked wooden ball (It doesn't have to be round ) with holes drilled in, and paste pushed into them, is as good as it gets. Fish over the softest area of bottom you can find, they really don't like it. Bait the traps as soon as you get there, boil up the bigger ones (Loads of salt, Paprika and garlic, YUM!!!) and have them for tea, then smash all the little ones up and get it out in the area you are fishing. Eventually, in come the Pike/Perch/Carp and out go the Crays! (A couple of tins of pet food holed and dropped over the marginal slope will help a lot if you are fishing fairly close in, they will spend days on the spot trying to get into the tins) Nige, enjoy the weekend, it's a beautiful place with some nice pretty fish. Have a stalk around too, the old Lob under a float works wonders there. Also worth a sling about with a lure or better still a sink and draw deadbait if it's quiet in the daytime, take my word for it there are loads of lively jacks to keep you busy! Try the food from the takeaway too, Ask Tom and he'll sort it. Proper nice guy. Please tell him Moose and the Welsh lads send their best and thanks for the Sloes last time.

Cor, frequencies, this is getting deep and meaninful now! You'll have the words "Chakra" and "Zen" or whatever being bandied around! Joking aside though, you're right Carp are so much more attuned to their environment than we will ever be. We can detect smells in the air around us for example, Carp can smell (Read taste) substances hundreds/thousands of times more diluted amongst all of the other signals they are surrounded by, and process whether they present a food source or not. I'm totally with you about location mate, it is the single most important aspect of your fishing, whether we are talking pinpoint location (A hot area within a swim) or the bigger picture, as in knowing where the fish are likely to be for any given set of conditions. I fish a 400+ acre lake in winter for Pike, and despite having what I am fairly sure is the best choice of baits and methods I can use, if I didn't have at least a decent idea where the fish are going to be, I would be totally wasting my time. I'm in the situation where I can't always be on the fish (Or at least on the bulk of them) on my current syndicate, so whatever I can do to increase the chance of a Carp finding my bait and wanting to eat it, I have to do that. An attractive bait (In my opinion) is not one that is reeking of Strawberry/Pineapple/Coconut or whatever, but one that is giving off signals that say "Eat me, I'm safe and good for you" to our old friend the Cypry. I have seen Carp literally doing loop the loops in a cloud of liquids that I have poured into an area, looking for solid edible food items. (Note: This is a safe area that the Carp are relaxed in) I have seen these fish on another occasion vacate the same area (In their own time, not bolting away) when about 1/4 kilo of broken up freezer baits were introduced. They didn't return for 2 days and the baits were all eaten by Tench. As a final observation, talking beds of bait here. I really do think that the area of water surrounding whatever bait you introduce, goes through changes the longer that bait is there, and the Carp know it.

I'm really enjoying the directions this thread is going off in! Androoooo with regards to what happens to the bait when we "Wash it out", you are starting to see the bigger picture, I'd suggest reading the thread again from the beginning and it might become clearer.

Glad I've got the old Grey matter working guys, that's what these forums are for after all. (Well, and for some people to ask what is the best boilie needle...) I wouldn't be concerned about tap water being Impure, but yes it does have things in it that are not considered "Natural" I suppose. How do we know that they repel carp? Chlorine certainly doesn't. There is so little taken into the bait during boiling, that it just doesn't concern me at all. However yes I would definitely choose other liquids to rehydrate/wash out bait over tap water. I don't want to give away any underground secrets here and if anyone reading is already doing this kind of thing I apologise, but to keep the cogs turning over, there are one or two fruits whose juice might be worth adding to that pure water of yours!

Grangemilky and blanksalot both make a lot of sense, but no one has mentioned yet, what happens to the ingredients of the bait, now all mixed together and beginning to chemically react with each other, when submerged in water over (For example) 2 days. What happens biologically inside the bait over this time to make it different from frozen baits? Does that make the bait more attractive to fish because the "Signals" coming off it are "Eat me"? Are the signals from the bait more/less attractive to carp in the sense of them being edible or just considered safer? Is the attraction actually coming from the immediate area of water around the bait, due to PH change, as a result of the bait being sat there? IMHO its not just colour/texture or the lack of artificial flavours that needs to be considered...