BBQ King

Not only is the effect the same, the products you mentioned are more or less hydrolysates. Yeast extract is typically produced through autolysis/hydrolysis of yeast cells. CSL contains degraded proteins from the steeping process. Products like Minamino/Nutramino derived much of their effectiveness from predigested soluble protein fractions, meaning proteins have already been broken down into peptides and amino acids, which is essentially what a hydrolysate is. So yes, those products worked long before “hydrolysate” became a fashionable buzzword — and they still contained hydrolysed material chemically speaking. That is still completely different from saying “adding water creates a hydrolysate” or that oat milk is automatically one. Hydration and hydrolysis are not the same thing. Hydrolysis specifically means actual cleavage of chemical bonds, particularly peptide bonds in proteins.

In a simplified angling conversation you could say “more digestible or usable protein”, but technically that is a shorthand, not the definition. The human sports nutrition comparison also does not really settle the bait question. For humans, normal dietary protein may be digested perfectly well, and hydrolysed protein supplements may often be overpriced. I don’t disagree with that. But in baitmaking, the point is usually not digestion after eating a meal. The point is solubility, leakage, free amino acids, small peptides, smell, taste signals and how quickly compounds become available in water. That is why a fish/liver hydrolysate, liquid liver, CSL or fish sauce-type product is not the same thing as simply boiling hemp or saying “protein is digestible”. So I’m not saying every product called hydrolysate is magical, or good value, or even good bait. I’m only saying the word has a real technical meaning. It refers to controlled breakdown, not just “more digestible protein”.

“hydrolysate” is not just a posh word for digestible protein. It usually means a material where proteins or other polymers have actually been broken down by hydrolysis. A proper hydrolysate should have measurable breakdown. For a protein hydrolysate that usually means things like degree of hydrolysis, soluble nitrogen, free amino acids and the amount/size range of small peptides. In other words, it is not just “old”, “boiled”, “more digestible” or “a bit fermented”. There should be a controlled breakdown of the raw material. Either via enzymes, acids, fermentation or other methods. Uncontrolled fermentation is different. It may create attractive compounds, and it may partly hydrolyse proteins or carbohydrates, but the result will not be consistent unless the process is controlled. The final product will depend on which bacteria or enzymes dominate, the pH, salt level, temperature, oxygen exposure and how long it is left. That is also why homemade ferments can be risky. If you don't have control, the wrong microbes might get involved and you may be growing potentially dangerous bacteria. In addition to botulism, you can add Salmonella, staphylococs, listeria and several others. Some of these are mainly a risk to the person handling the bait. Others may also matter for fish health or water quality.

I get your point, but this a bit like shouting 'I LIKE CHOCOLATE MILK' when people are discussing wines.

Yes, my post disappeared and I have no idea why. It was a link to a blog that directed people to the Bait tactics youtube channel I have experienced good results with fermented particles, will try the fish next time. an easier solution is just to use anchovy or fish sauce from the Asian shops, its basically fermented fish in salt too

I was speaking to some people in a fermented food group on faceache... There is this chef there doing his own meat and sausage stuff. He strongly adviced me not to use homemade culture but pointed me towards commercial bacteria cultures. with the homemades it is hard to get consistent results and also you risk food poisoning like salmonella and botulin. In particular when fermenting liver and fish. This one should be perfect: https://www.weschenfelder.co.uk/flora-italia-lc-25g-sachet.html Recipe from the chef: Mince fresh Mackerel thoroughly. Add: 8–10% salt 3–8% molasses or glucose Acidify immediately: lactic acid alone, or lactic + small amount citric acid until pH reaches ~4.0–4.2. Add Flora Italia LC at recommended dosage. Ferment in food-grade bucket/container at ~20–30 °C. Stir daily with clean utensil. When liquefied and sour-stable (typically 1–3 weeks), store cool/refrigerated. Can store for a year in the fridge. Warning. If it later develops: swelling pressure, mold, strong fecal/sewage odor, sharp sulfur gas, or pH rise, discard it.

why is that mate?

Has anyone tried making Lactobacillus hydrolysates. Very effective for nearly anything. You need to make a bacterial culture first, then use this to digest liver, fish or other stuff. It's not my YT channel, just want to know if anyone has tried this before I do it myself. Here is the bacteria culture; Liver hydrolysate: Also CSL: https://youtu.be/_e-jE1fsGUM?si=Vw6meCB7nNUcwoPY

Hello all, I just got invited to fish a pretty over grown estate lake with fish up to mid thirties. Casting with 12 feet rods is near impossible in many places. You need to wade out and possibly scare the fish. Not to keen on using a bait boat. Have anyone used the Sonik Xtractor 8 feet rods? How are they when playing fish? They seem very short when checking them out in the shop.