Baits with no boiling

[carpingod150]

Is there any way of making boilies without any form of cooking? I was thinking about the amino profile in the baits, (cheers Goblin ) and surely baits would have more nutritional value, and therefore be more attractive to the fish if the baits were not cooked, yet had the same texture (hard outer skin) as a boilie.

 

I'd imagine this would also be better because there is no heat, the natural enzymes in the bait would not be denatured, so some of the ingredients in the baits would be semi-digested before the fish has even eaten it (I realise this can already be done with LT94 and other pre-digested fishmeals.)

 

I think solar make a pellet range that requires no boiling, but I'm not aware of a boilie like this. I've thought about steaming the baits, but this still requires heat, which would change the amino profile etc.

 

I'd imagine the easiest way of doing this would be some form of air drying to achieve the tough outer skin, but I don't know if this would be achievable.

 

Anyone got any views?

[boots_n_braces]

theres a thread from about a month ago i brought up on this have adig around it shouldnt be to far back. basics were yes you can but you need to use some thing to stick the bait together like gelatin or another bonding agent from the catering industry. After a lot of phoning and enquiring none really suited our needs without taking the cost of boilies from £10 a kilo to around £40. in the end i went for going back to particles more and just soaking them for longer without the boiling (pleeease be carefull with this method)

[silly12sally]

Is there any way of making boilies without any form of cooking? I was thinking about the amino profile in the baits, (cheers Goblin ) and surely baits would have more nutritional value, and therefore be more attractive to the fish if the baits were not cooked, yet had the same texture (hard outer skin) as a boilie.

 

I'd imagine this would also be better because there is no heat, the natural enzymes in the bait would not be denatured, so some of the ingredients in the baits would be semi-digested before the fish has even eaten it (I realise this can already be done with LT94 and other pre-digested fishmeals.)

 

I think solar make a pellet range that requires no boiling, but I'm not aware of a boilie like this. I've thought about steaming the baits, but this still requires heat, which would change the amino profile etc.

 

I'd imagine the easiest way of doing this would be some form of air drying to achieve the tough outer skin, but I don't know if this would be achievable.

 

Anyone got any views?

 

I use the paste which gets rolled into boilies to wrap around my hookbait.

 

I found that this increased my catch rate on moderately easy waters.

[coldo]

i think you can actually cure baits ,theres a guy in the scottish carp group who has a bait company up here and he's had the 2 biggest fish from wyresides sunny 1 on cured baits,theres something written about it in this months advanced carp mag in the mark holmes column at the back of the mag

[goblin]

carpingod your welcome

there are a couple of ways to do it, one I briefly told you about via pm but also, many moons ago myself and a former member (dish666) were playing around with "skinned" baits whereby the outer layer was set using a product from the catering industry (very close boots n braces) called "carrageen moss" which is a kelp that will set without any heat being applied and also holds amminos, and produced a very firm outer skin that also allowed leakage of the inner, we then moved onto the inner being made of the "marshmallow" I told you about and eventually arrived at an ethyl alcohol version.

[the_transporter]

carpingod your welcome

there are a couple of ways to do it, one I briefly told you about via pm but also, many moons ago myself and a former member (dish666) were playing around with "skinned" baits whereby the outer layer was set using a product from the catering industry (very close boots n braces) called "carrageen moss" which is a kelp that will set without any heat being applied and also holds amminos, and produced a very firm outer skin that also allowed leakage of the inner, we then moved onto the inner being made of the "marshmallow" I told you about and eventually arrived at an ethyl alcohol version.

 

now you have got me interested

[goblin]

wouldnt know if the thread is still around but was called ICBMs

[the_transporter]

can only find this 1 on the search

 

https://forum.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=6131&highlight=icbm

 

is that the 1

[goblin]

no mate although we do mention them on there towards end, must have been removed (as you can see we got away with far more swearing etc back then as was hardly any young uns on here)

[the_transporter]

i did notice made an interesting read though

[tonybranno]

When Solar made their Pure Bait Wedges, they claimed they where made without any boiling involved

[snobber]

Sun dry them in a window that has a lot of sun, and put then in an egg box to help dry them. they will tend to be a bit harder than boiled baits so you will have to drill them!

[salokcinnodrog]

Sun dry them in a window that has a lot of sun, and put then in an egg box to help dry them. they will tend to be a bit harder than boiled baits so you will have to drill them!

 

Used to do that with Trigga, and it works well.

 

I would make up a batch of ordinary boiled baits, then the odd few at the end I would just Air Dry.

 

They do break down a bit quicker than Boiled baits, but that was a benefit rather than a disadvantage.

 

The other thing I was doing was making some Baits with water instead of eggs and just airdrying them. Again a quick(er) breakdown, but also an advantage. If you put the "water" baits as your freebies you can still use a boiled bait on the hook.

 

If you look at "Egg Replacements" then I posted some alternatives on there. Complete with some Scientific breakdowns as well

 

I seem to remember the ICBM thread with Dish666 and Goblin, could well be in the Advanced Carp Fishing section. Must have been about the time I joined the forum or even a bit earlier when new people actually went through the older threads to catch up

 

Goblin, have you heard from Dish? I seem to remember that he moved up to North of Scotland and had a Back problem. Didn't know if you kept in touch at all?

[goblin]

Sun dry them in a window that has a lot of sun, and put then in an egg box to help dry them. they will tend to be a bit harder than boiled baits so you will have to drill them!

 

Used to do that with Trigga, and it works well.

 

I would make up a batch of ordinary boiled baits, then the odd few at the end I would just Air Dry.

 

They do break down a bit quicker than Boiled baits, but that was a benefit rather than a disadvantage.

 

The other thing I was doing was making some Baits with water instead of eggs and just airdrying them. Again a quick(er) breakdown, but also an advantage. If you put the "water" baits as your freebies you can still use a boiled bait on the hook.

 

If you look at "Egg Replacements" then I posted some alternatives on there. Complete with some Scientific breakdowns as well

 

I seem to remember the ICBM thread with Dish666 and Goblin, could well be in the Advanced Carp Fishing section. Must have been about the time I joined the forum or even a bit earlier when new people actually went through the older threads to catch up

 

Goblin, have you heard from Dish? I seem to remember that he moved up to North of Scotland and had a Back problem. Didn't know if you kept in touch at all?

 

Hi mate, not spoken for about twelve months now, was still using our bait last time he called but in "glm and honey" whereas I concentrated on "blood and liver", both had good results on it, (my pb came to it) and Daz was ripping "attenborough" apart on it with some cracking fish pics, but it is such a damn time consuming bait to make, its a days work to produce 1.5-2kg.

Dont know if he did eventually move up above the wall though, cracking lad and got into some very funny threads with him

[salokcinnodrog]

 

Goblin, have you heard from Dish? I seem to remember that he moved up to North of Scotland and had a Back problem. Didn't know if you kept in touch at all?

 

Hi mate, not spoken for about twelve months now, was still using our bait last time he called but in "glm and honey" whereas I concentrated on "blood and liver", both had good results on it, (my pb came to it) and Daz was ripping "attenborough" apart on it with some cracking fish pics, but it is such a damn time consuming bait to make, its a days work to produce 1.5-2kg.

Dont know if he did eventually move up above the wall though, cracking lad and got into some very funny threads with him

 

He had a great sense of humour as well as a great deal of knowledge. I did have a few PM's with him that gave me a good insight into some things that I didn't understand. Miss his insight and understanding on baits . He could explain thngs in terms that I could understand instead of me having to sit and read the Scientific Report and decipher it

[salokcinnodrog]

Just did a small bit on baits containing a level of Salt, so this Curing could cause me a slight worry.

 

This is from the University of Chicago about salt in the Carp's diet

 

Salt exposure reduced food intake by 70% and had adverse effects on growth and survival. Although food consumption decreased and growth was seriously affected, routine oxygen consumption of the exposed fish did not drop, indicating a reallocation of energy expenditure from growth toward other processes. A stress-induced increase in plasma glucose was observed. As a result of low food intake, lower levels of protein were used for fuel. Protein use itself was probably replaced by the use of carbohydrates. These effects were confirmed by the depletion of both muscle and liver glycogen stores during the experimental period. We conclude that, besides the effects of reduced feeding, stress induced extra energy requirements leading to the depletion of energy stores.

 

 

The recommended level has been found to be a maximum of 1.5%

[levigsp]

Nick thats an interesting bit of info Ill explain why as it ties in with something else.

For years pond owners,and aquatic writers,have stated its a good thing to put salt in the pond water,however it has be proved that the fish survive this but do not thrive.

Salt in any form is harmfull to carp for your stated reasons,and if you ask anyone realy in the know they will tell you the same.

I think that at sometime in the distant past has been told to put a leval of salt in a pond to help with an ulcer,[it alters the electrolite levals of the fish and stops it taking on water],and they have took this to meen perminently and put this in a book somewhere.

I would not put salt,sodium chroride,in carp water or there food,full stop,regardless of other peoples recomendations

[carpingod150]

Thats weird, 'coz the latest 'fad' in the rags seems to be curing baits with salt, and pva bagging with only rocksalt in the bag