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Are boilies essential or even needed ?


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56 minutes ago, chillfactor said:

So know idea what bait he was using,  but using it as an example for why boilies are for brainwashed mugs .

So many variables it's untrue .

Like hutch pointed out thousands upon thousands  of anglers Europe wide & worldwide having superb consistent results on boilie .

I have issues with the word 'consistent'.  Consistency is the holy grail of bait users. A universally consistent bait doesn't exist for a variety of reasons. I agree that many anglers fishing heavily stocked waters where the fish population depends on angler's bait the boilie will work. After all, if enough people throw any edible item into the water often enough fish could become preoccupied on it.

But you could equally say that in many places of the world, probably the majority of locations, things like maize, millet paste and natural baits such as crayfish work well for thousands upon thousands of anglers. And the fish have never seen a boilie.

Boilies were designed to overcome a particular problem. They are not the answer to every angler's problems.

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I don't think anyone can say boilies don't work better than any other bait. 

You can catch carp on plastic, wine gums and even a controller float (believe me I've done it) if it's in the right place. Bait application and location far outweigh the bait used. But constant baiting with a single type of boilie will produce results, and good results.

Look at when the boile first became available (long before my birth btw) but the amount of carp caught went up massively. Then fishmeals arrived and it got even better. That says something as everyone was catching but not as much on particle, corn, etc. 

Btw CM didn't blank, and he lost a fish too. I had two and Ianfrog had 8(?) from the shallows. One fell to a zig too. 

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1 hour ago, Big Common said:

Name a problem they don't cover, being as they come in all shapes and sizes........ apart from crayfish, which affects most baits.,.....

 

That's the whole point. They are being used by some anglers as a first resort whether there is a problem to overcome or not. same can be said of the bolt rig. Great in the right circumstances but not right for every occasion.

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2 hours ago, Nicepix said:

 I agree that many anglers fishing heavily stocked waters where the fish population depends on angler's bait the boilie will work. After all, if enough people throw any edible item into the water often enough fish could become preoccupied on it.

Now you see I wouldn't even bother using boilies on these waters you mention , that's if I did fish them which I don't . 

So boilies don't work on  low stock waters then? 

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, chillfactor said:

Now you see I wouldn't even bother using boilies on these waters you mention , that's if I did fish them which I don't . 

So boilies don't work on  low stock waters then? 

 

 

 

Of course boilies will work on low stocked waters. So will maize, bread and other baits, and unless there were reasons why boilies were better I'd stick to maize.

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22 minutes ago, Nicepix said:

Of course boilies will work on low stocked waters. So will maize, bread and other baits, and unless there were reasons why boilies were better I'd stick to maize.

I still don't get why you are saying boilies are a rubbish bait? You prefer maize, I can see multiple problems using that bait. I've used it plenty in the past too btw. But it's your choice. Why are you trying to tell everyone that boilies are not as good? 

I can think of plenty of reasons boilies are better than maize, let's be honest a rubbish boilie contains not much more than maize meal. A good one contains plenty of ingredients which offer lots of things a grain of maize won't. 

what maize will do is catch you plenty of bream and tench. Small ones too. It can be deadly for carp but when the nusiance species are plenty there is no point using it as a hookbait. 

Edited by greekskii
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Nice honesty mate, its a good discussion if not a well worn chestnut.

Without breaking out the science there are reasons why the baits you love work well, as well as a reason certain boilies smash a place up and some boilies are steady away, can you put something in front of them that they are 100% gonna drop on ?? the answer has to be NO!! :)  

Thats why we keep coming back for more 

Edited by hutch
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Give me a nice lake with a decent head of carp and no Tench, Bream or other "nuisance" fish (not saying Tench are a nuisance fish, I love 'em. But not when I'm fishing for carp 8)).

Bed of maize with a couple of pieces popped up an inch or two.

Cushty.

 

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10 hours ago, greekskii said:

I still don't get why you are saying boilies are a rubbish bait? You prefer maize, I can see multiple problems using that bait. I've used it plenty in the past too btw. But it's your choice. Why are you trying to tell everyone that boilies are not as good? 

I can think of plenty of reasons boilies are better than maize, let's be honest a rubbish boilie contains not much more than maize meal. A good one contains plenty of ingredients which offer lots of things a grain of maize won't. 

what maize will do is catch you plenty of bream and tench. Small ones too. It can be deadly for carp but when the nusiance species are plenty there is no point using it as a hookbait. 

I never said that boilies are a rubbish bait. And I have never told anyone that boilies are not as good. Try reading the posts again.

Maize contains about 90% of what a carp needs. They can easily find the other part in their natural diet.

With maize, that is hard skinned agricultural maize, not sweetcorn I don't get bothered with bream and chub anywhere near what I do with boilies or pellets.

 

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10 hours ago, Big Common said:

Maize is no doubt a good carp bait some of the time. Will it withstand a 130yrd chuck, maybe, but not definitely. Put anything on to stop it smashing off and you lose yards on the cast.

 

Are you getting maize mixed up with sweetcorn? If you get maize grains from animal feed stores and boil it until soft inside the skin is still tough enough to withstand any casting distance. Also, you can use artificial maize grains that will stay on indefinitely. 

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20 minutes ago, Nicepix said:

Maize contains about 90% of what a carp needs. They can easily find the other part in their natural diet.

Sorry but just no, a carp can find 100% of what it needs in the natural environment, maybe not all the salt. Maize doesn't contain 90% of a carp's optimum diet whereas you can tailor a boilie to meet 98% of it. So on that basis boilies are better than maize? Just saying. Maize is a pure carbohydrate, protein is minimal, same as vitamins and minerals. It's also well known in the industry that particles don't offer a lot of nutrition to fish at all. 

 

24 minutes ago, carpmachine said:

You are fishing a river, Vik is a big pit specialist, he is a fine angler and a good friend, he will learn these tricks and probably come to the same conclusions, let him make his own judgements, we can only provide guidance, he could probably teach this old dog a thing or two about pit fishing, rivers will come, guys like him are the future of a true sport, experience will make him a great angler.

Kind words CM 

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Tbh... the amount you prebait your lake cm & the sheer amount of fish in there your results are very questionable at best;  for a bait that's supposed to be far better than anything else , according to you . 

Two lads turn up at your lake & empty it with the boilie approach, now don't go back to saying it's just the quantity as you prebait masses of your bait with out those results. 

Only someone who has no clue at all would think that the reason that most blanked at Horseshoe was down to them using boilies. Also bare in mind that plenty were using maize too ! 

 Like i said earlier ...Being on the fish is far more important than whats on the hook . Oh & for the record plenty of fish got caught on boilie that social just not by the members off here .

Food for thought ...... lol 

39 minutes ago, carpmachine said:

If you go on to you tube, there is a video on there of a kid taking Horseshoe apart with sweetcorn, one false two genuine, now the last social these lads had on here only produced a couple of fish, the majority blanked, food for thought.

 

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9 minutes ago, carpmachine said:

Not going to reply to that mate, but just to add, you could get horseshoe in the car park of some off the lakes around here, and it isnt exactly understocked is it.

What's that got do with anything. There are equally as big sheets of water around here ..... big deal .

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1 hour ago, greekskii said:

Sorry but just no, a carp can find 100% of what it needs in the natural environment, maybe not all the salt. Maize doesn't contain 90% of a carp's optimum diet whereas you can tailor a boilie to meet 98% of it. So on that basis boilies are better than maize? Just saying. Maize is a pure carbohydrate, protein is minimal, same as vitamins and minerals. It's also well known in the industry that particles don't offer a lot of nutrition to fish at all. 

 

Kind words CM 

I'll disagree with some of this, but not all, and add a few other points in.

 

Maize and Sweetcorn are high in lysine, an amino acid that the fish need, and I think from memory is one of the essentials.

However I do agree that particles don't as a vegetable protein, in the carps diet, offer the best protein source for growth; carp require vegetable and animal proteins to get the best growth through their lives. This is where a boilie comes in, a mix of vegetable proteins (don't just think of milk proteins as high levels of milk becomes indigestible), as although they will eat naturals, most snails, shrimps and mussels are mostly water, low levels but useable. The boilie is providing everything. 

Then we confuse the issue, a boilie can be an attractor bait, low protein high carbs, or a food source providing everything. 

 

How owe you bait up with freebies can make boilies more or less effective. A boilie over particles or Groundbaits works, but who is to say that at the same time particle over particle wouldn't have worked.

It could be that particle over particle works, why fish a slightly more expensive boilie hookbait?

Or it may be that boilie over particle is the way to go.

 

In most cases it is getting the feeding right, and any hookbait will work.

Boilies are in most cases tougher and last longer than many well cooked particles, although maize can be a very tough hookbait, even properly prepared.

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16 minutes ago, salokcinnodrog said:

Then we confuse the issue, a boilie can be an attractor bait, low protein high carbs, or a food source providing everything. 

This is exactly the case. I know the bait I use is a food source providing everything, HNV,  over 12 ingredients go in to it to, at scientifically calculated levels to ensure the bait is providing everything in the right amounts. 

I think many people knock boilies because all they've seen are the attractor baits, not much more than 2/3 ingredients and a heavy dose of flavouring, like some of the expensive boilies out there. Crumbly balls of nothingness. 

I fish my boilies with particle, always have done. Boilies as hookbaits to avoid other species (not that it stops them)

Every bait has its day. Sometimes maize will do better, the next day, same spot, boilies will out fish everything else. 

Back to the original question, boilies are needed. If you had a fishery and banned boilies (and pellet for this argument) and it was only particle being fed the growth and health of the fish will diminish. This would due to lack of available minerals, vitamins, salt, etc. Whereas a boilie only water with particle banned? The fish will maintain health and condition. Unless all that was fed was basic boilie attractor baits.

As said. There are two types of boilies. Don't confuse them or use them in the same arguments as they are two completely different things. A gym buffs diet plan to a microwave meal.  

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1 hour ago, carpmachine said:

Get on with it buddy, the fact is only a couple caught on your social, boilie was the bait, go on you tube and watch the kid do the business with sweetcorn and draw your own conclusions, nothing more to say, adios amigo.

You do make me smile cm .... always ends up with you telling people to go on you tube & watch some random video that your basing your argument on .

Why would I bother when I can walk round the lake & see the likes of josh & Melv having big hits on boilie lol 

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On ‎10‎/‎06‎/‎2017 at 07:13, smufter said:

but a big old lump of free lined luncheon meat will be heading down the near margins at first light.

Clearly there aren't any Crayfish in your particular venue.

 

BOF  :wink:

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Boilies are not essential, they are just another bait to be used when  needed ... the problem (if you can call it that ) is that they have become too convenient and the sheer volume of them going into most commercials means that the fish have switched on to them as a regular food source... That said, adding a bit of variety into your baiting can often bring results and I have done well on maggot, worms, bread, meat, pellets, maize, boilies and corn, plus any other baits that may show themselves to be useful... Maybe as anglers we do tend to follow fashions slavishly, but then again, you tend to go with what works, even if that is a bag 'o boilies... s'not worth getting het up over... go with what you want...

 

(Oi... Admin... you need a "Thumbs Up" smiley)

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