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British Record


snowmanstevo
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The FB wolfpack are just wanabees, sadly this sort of action by those owners caused disgust amonst some and envy amongst others, the sleeping business is different, you miss so many signs when you are not watching whats going on, i dont agree with it but its not going to stop anyone despite numerous reasons for not doing so, and i am not threatening anyone just giving an opinion that you choose not to agree with.

Exactly! That's the kind of gentlemanly debate which is healthy. The second you threaten to kick my head in if I fall asleep is a different matter. Couldn't agree more with your whole post there.

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Watching sport for enjoyment and having and opinion of it is one thing. Threatening people over it and beating people up is called hooliganism and gets you band from travelling abroad and attending matches.

 

By this rationale everyone gets to have an opinion on the fish, but those who abuse others over it should be banned from carp fishing. Seems fair to me. :)

 

Thankfully it's true that it's a minority who take it too far. I'm not on about people making a strong but peaceful opinion on if this type of fishing should go on. It's not ok to hurl abuse at people over it.

 

This type of fish rearing goes on everywhere. All the massive French fish are the same. It's simply bringing "holiday" type fishing to the uk. Should it be a British record? In my opinion, no. But as I've said before that no-one has chosen to answer yet, what makes a carp British?

It's a good question Adam, what's a British carp?

How British does a carp have to be, to be recognised as a record fish?

Then you have the inevitable, what about a British carp being stocked in at over the current record weight?

I don't think it's a foreign issue, I think it's more to do with the intent of Rob Hales and the fact it was stocked at over the record weight.

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I really dont believe the origins of the carp is relevant, it is the degree of difficulty in its capture that makes it a worthy prize, i dont like the fish deliberately bred for a short life just because they grow faster, that is an ethical question, yes we do it with food animals knowing that they will not suffer in later life, but a fish capable of living 70 years, it just dont sit with me.

Yeah that's a fair point. The fish was 30+ as a C5, which is about twice what you'd expect. It was bought with 2 others, the other two have only put on 5lb since. It was in the avenue for 5 weeks not 5 days as reported. I doubt it's going to be long lived. Doubt it'll ever be that big again either. They're not the only ones at it though. Kevin Nash has had a "project" lake to try and grow on the biggest fish he can. It's a shame that this is the way it's going. I don't like the weight chasing game myself. The syndicate lakes I'm on have fish to 30 in them, and they're stunning. Average weight of mid-upper doubles. I fish them because the lakes and fish are stunning, because normally there's only a couple of people on, and because the people are selected by their values and attitude and I like them all. No size of fish in the world would have me chasing around packed out day tickets, or puddle in the ground busy syndicates. Couldn't imagine anything worse. Wouldn't hold it against those that do though. I choose to live in Shropshire, I don't hate those who choose to live in London. Up to them, not for me.

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It's a good question Adam, what's a British carp?

How British does a carp have to be, to be recognised as a record fish?

Then you have the inevitable, what about a British carp being stocked in at over the current record weight?

I don't think it's a foreign issue, I think it's more to do with the intent of Rob Hales and the fact it was stocked at over the record weight.

Yeah I'd agree with that.

 

This fish has apparently been growing on in another of Rob Hales' lakes for 5 years which was fished like any other syndicate, moved to a breeding pool for 6 months, and put in the avenue 5 weeks ago..... If you believe Rob Hales. It is all a bit convenient!

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By this rationale everyone gets to have an opinion on the fish, but those who abuse others over it should be banned from carp fishing. Seems fair to me. :)

 

What I meant was we all enjoy and participate in the sport and we all have the rite to have a say and express how we feel.

 

I think if the fish had been stocked as say a 30 and had grown on naturally in a competitive environment (natural selection so to speak) then yes a backlash may have occurred but nowhere near the degree that it has.

 

As for the quoted bit I couldn't agree more with you only I would extend it to angling in all forms! The sport/hobby however each person chooses to see it does not need these sorts of people involved with it, it just gives a bad name to each and every one of us.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Yeah I'd agree with that.

 

This fish has apparently been growing on in another of Rob Hales' lakes for 5 years which was fished like any other syndicate, moved to a breeding pool for 6 months, and put in the avenue 5 weeks ago..... If you believe Rob Hales. It is all a bit convenient!

Let's take that as the truth then, let's take it he did exactly that. The crux of the matter for many, it was stocked in at over the record weight. Its seen as a cheat. But, and it's a big but, fish are stocked all over the country with the intent of being bigger than the rest. So is this just a problem because the national record is at stake?

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Wow Mr Kitson,You have used a lot of words about the history of British carp that I have already said two days ago!!!Also we do all have a right to have a say in this issue , because we don't all fish a lake where every fish is known and has a name and a bank day arrival!! A lot of us still fish the small unknown,unquantified lakes were maybe ,just ,maybe that record monster may lurk and make our dreams come true.It's called hope and that's what keeps a lot of us,me included returning to the banks again and again.

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 so whats this HNV stuff about supposedly being so healthy for fish, obese out of condition gutballs, produced just to satisfy the public, is this right.

 

 

You need to expand on this CM it's a very generic term, as discussed before different breeds/strains of carp grow at different rates but with this comes a lower life span of that breed not all carp have the same genetic make up.

 

Not all baits are HNV, does HNV even exist anymore definitely not to the level of Fred's writings.  The fish are farmed to feed the need for large fish in the more commercial waters, you have to have a future plan if you run a water you can't keep sliding 3-4lbs fish in and hope they grow you would lose all or anglers before they got big enough in a natural environment. The food they get to make them fast grow is specifically designed for that purpose and has nothing to do with boilies.

 

Is it right ??, in what context ? , if the details that are slowly emerging about the fish in question then i personally don't think it is right on a moral level, I am still of the opinion that this fish was grown for a purpose and it has fulfilled that, let see what weight it next comes out at next time

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So what would members class as a British record carp then is it a fish that been pellet feed and stocked into a lake at 74lb or a old warrior thats grown on naturally I now which one I would class as a British record carp its a shame though that its come to this with the guy getting threats to him and is family is this what the carping community as come too glad I am out of the rat race and don't fish these type of waters

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So what would members class as a British record carp then is it a fish that been pellet feed and stocked into a lake at 74lb or a old warrior thats grown on naturally I now which one I would class as a British record carp its a shame though that its come to this with the guy getting threats to him and is family is this what the carping community as come too glad I am out of the rat race and don't fish these type of waters

The angler has said he hasn't received any threats whatsoever.
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http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/revealed-how-britains-angling-community-8888649

No threats you say dont believe everything you read in the paper though

Since this was reported the angler has been quoted on more than one occasion that he personally has not received any threats.

It's rob hales and the sponsors reporting the threats.

I feel sorry for this guy.

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I dunno. People have been at this in many forms since the birth of humanity. Who can grow the biggest bull, or tomato, or pretty much anything. Being able to grow bigger carp is just the next step in the field. If it were an agricultural show rob hales would have a rosette and a front cover.

Simon Scott said, long before this, and I'm paraphrasing as I don't have his exact words,

Progress happens. Look at Wraysbury. Go back 100 years and it was a field. The gravel was taken to build motorways and now there's a fishery.

 

Anyone who doesn't like an animal being imported and selectively bred for its attributes at the cost of its health, do you have a dog?

 

I don't agree with an animal being treated or reared in a way that could affect its health, but this fish was bough with 2 others at the same time from the same place. All three treated the same. The other 2 put on 5 lb. this one put on 35. This one was no more selected than the other 2, so it's not genetically engineered or foie gras fattened, it's just a big fish.

Most fish are farmed, they're either Simmo, VS, Dinks etc.... If the import thing isn't an issue then surely this is just how to do it well?

Not saying it should be a record, or that it's ok, just posing the question.

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Heres a bit of a different take on this one, the only known method of extending life is to reduce the ammount of calories consumed, experiments amongst mice have proved you can nearly double their lifespan by reducing their det to starvation levels, humans suffering rationing after both world wars showed the same biological patterns, so whats this HNV stuff about supposedly being so healthy for fish, obese out of condition gutballs, produced just to satisfy the public, is this right.

Steve

The HNV theory was not built around fattening carp up, the clue is in the title. HNV, Hi-Nu-Val, High Nutritional Value, high in nutrition not fatty substances.

There are many titles, HNV, Food Source, Balanced, like I have stated before, boilies are not a one dimensional bait because they are all run in appearance. I think you'll find all these fish fatten up with high oil pellets and grain. I'm not totally denying the use of boilies at some stage but there are many examples I have seen and read about fish being and looking in peak condition because of boilies.

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Wow Mr Kitson,You have used a lot of words about the history of British carp that I have already said two days ago!!!Also we do all have a right to have a say in this issue , because we don't all fish a lake where every fish is known and has a name and a bank day arrival!! A lot of us still fish the small unknown,unquantified lakes were maybe ,just ,maybe that record monster may lurk and make our dreams come true.It's called hope and that's what keeps a lot of us,me included returning to the banks again and again.

Well firstly if we used the same words then we agree, no?

Also, if you caught a massive unknown whopper, would the fact that someone you don't know caught a fish you'll never see from a lake you'll never fish somehow take away from the pleasure for you? Or would it be missing out on the glory of revealing it to the world and standing on the top of the podium for 5 mins.

Personally I'd have a shot or two for the album, share it with my mates, and put it back. The name in the record book ain't worth it, and wouldn't make me enjoy it more.

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It seems to me, this fish is only being debunked because we know some of its past, but what about if it was a fish we knew nothing about, an unknown, would eery one be slating it then?

Imagine this,;a fish gets caught at over 70lb, an unknown, would it be accepted then? Even though it may of had the same history as the latest.

Edited by Gazlaaar
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It seems to me, this fish is only being debunked because we know some of its past, but what about if it was a fish we knew nothing about, an unknown, would eery one be slating it then?

Imagine this,;a fish gets caught at over 70lb, an unknown, would it be accepted then? Even though it may of had the same history as the latest.

But the whole reason there is so much vitriol posted on the internet about this fish is because the origins of it ARE known.

Say the owners of the said lake net it. Get the thing out again and pop it back in the stock pond.

Throw a couple of cwt of bait at it so that it gets even fatter and then put it back in the main lake at 80lb plus.

Would that now count as a new record fish????

Something doesn't sit right with me about this whole situation and whilst I am not going to get into arguments about the rights and wrongs of it, I stand by what I originally said.

I'd rather catch a nice, slim, fighting 30lb Common that I've had to work to catch, than pull a lump like this in.

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Ok ill put it this way,

What's the difference between the methods of this fish and a race horse or grey hound. All three have been born and bred for a specific purpose.

You are not going to catch a racehorse or greyhound and try to claim a record for weight!

You cannot compare the two.

Millions and millions of ££££££'s have been spent over the years on improving the bloodline of racehorses and to a lesser extent greyhounds to win races and make profits for their owners.

There is a huge industry that has been around for years and years and years for improving the performance of horses, 

This carp was "bred" purely to claim a record on weight.

It was stuffed to the gills on high protein food just to fatten it up.

It might as well have been fed a diet of big macs and fries!

Two totally different scenarios/

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The only difference I can see, is one is reared to be big the other two reared to be fast, the ethics are the same. All three suffer in later life, all three have one purpose.

You talk of the millions of pounds spent improving such species, the same could be said with fish feed, quality is always improving.

To my mind, the two are very different scenarios, but the same ethics apply, bred and reared for a single purpose. One is devalued the other are praised for the efforts taken.

 

Like you, I am in no way trying to get into an argument, just playing devil's advocate.

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