hookedoncarp Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 Hi all, this may have already been answered but I'm not sure whether the lake I often fish allows leadcore but I'm sure u can't. So my question is what could I use instead of leadcore, and if anyone has any tips or advise I'd be glad to hear it, thanks in advance. Ps I'm new to chod rigs so any advice on best ways to fish them would also be great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zammmo Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 Tungsten impregnated rig tube,if your whacking it out it can come out of your tail rubber DON'T GLUE IT IN get some of the new Avid tube gripper lead clips... miloman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigewoodcock Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 No need for leadcore in the first place Try not to use a leader of any kind if you can help it. It's much safer for the fish without one.  Taken from the following thread, which also has links in it worth reading:  https://forum.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=45812&highlight=chod+silt+bead  Basically I tie mine as follows.  From Lead, all mounted on the mainline:  Lead (with swivel cut off) – weak link of low b/s line – large eye swivel – Korda shockleader sleeve – the rig – ESP shock bead – slim float stop (set to required depth)    In the picture I have not used the weak link as there was a clean bottom with no snags present. If there was weed in the vicinity or any sort of snaggy areas then this would be incorporated in the set up. I don’t use this rig when fishing into weed but I am working on an idea.  As an extra safety measure I have now switched to using a slimmer float stop so the ESP bead will pass over the stop under pressure. If this fails then the running large eye swivel that the rig is mounted on will pass over the bead under very light pressure.    I use the shockleader sleeves to stop the swivel and line working at horrible angles whilst playing a fish.   It also lets the rig sit nicely during the cast.   If there is a pretty much uniform lake bed out to the area fishing, I will sometimes use a flying backlead and / or backlead. This gives that extra bit of resistance on any pickup, if required. I do however, find that a slack line approach works fantastically in most situations as the set up has predominately been used as a single bait approach. miloman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hookedoncarp Posted March 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 Thanks very much nigewoodcock, this is exactly what i was looking for. Will give this a try next time im out on the lake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobleyn Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 I use 45lb Seaguar flouro as a leader (to stop me from cracking off)... this is quite heavy and whilst it doesn't replace leadcore completely goes some of the way. Its less obvious too than leadcore which is invariably the wrong colour for the bottom it lands on. Â I've tried the Avid chod beads on it and they're OK (although they do slip a bit up the line when giving it the beans on a cast). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigewoodcock Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 I use 45lb Seaguar flouro as a leader (to stop me from cracking off)... this is quite heavy and whilst it doesn't replace leadcore completely goes some of the way. Its less obvious too than leadcore which is invariably the wrong colour for the bottom it lands on. I've tried the Avid chod beads on it and they're OK (although they do slip a bit up the line when giving it the beans on a cast).  How many metres of leader are you using? Do the Avid beads slip over the leader knot eaisily? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobleyn Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 I tend to use around 5 metres nige. I put enough on so that I've got enough of a drop to cast and then another few turns on the reel in case I want to change the rig a couple of times and have to cut three or four inches off...then I dont have to re rig the whole leader. Â The choddy bead sits ok on the thick flouro...but on normal line it just skids up it on the cast. The beads will go over the leader knot with a tug...certainly a decent sized carp would pull it over if it got snapped and snagged. Â Just a couple of notes. I use an albright knot to join them as you can cut the ends to nothing so there is nothing to jam up as the bead slips up. Also I use the main line to wrap around the loop of the leader as this makes a smaller diameter knot. Â I use a baiting needle with a gate on it too, to thread it onto the line so...so that may also open the bore up a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigewoodcock Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 Jamie showed me the beads last week on our trip out and I must admit I like them a lot. I would have no problem using them as I don't use a leader. It's just that the bore on them seems a liitle tight to slip the knot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobleyn Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 They're a bit tight...but they do go over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theobeeus Posted March 23, 2014 Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) I love using leaders, for a start choddies are essentially helicopter rigs and the swivels dig in at an awkward angle on naked line playing fish, hence the (necessity in my opinion) of using line of about 18lb minimum  depends on lakebed but if it is relatively flat go for a heavy fluoro leader, or if it's a bit bumpy why not a sinking heavy hooklink braid? Both can have a couple of sinkers or putty dotted up em as well Edited March 23, 2014 by theobeeus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theobeeus Posted March 23, 2014 Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 Try not to use a leader of any kind if you can help it. It's much safer for the fish without one. Â I strongly disagree Leaders are only dangerous if they are tied irresponsibly without attention to detail What difference is there to a carp in towing around a perfectly thoughtfully tied leader or towing a load of line about? If the mainline breaks, a hooklink can just as easily slide off a leader as long as the correct fittings are used in the correct manner. Â I would say leaders are safer anyway. Rotary rig setups like chods have the swivel digging awkwardly at the line at the lead end during the fight, if the line being used is too weak, or the swivel is too thin, or roughened, there is a danger of it parting thus leaving a carp dangling a rig stuck in its mouth whereby there would be no danger with a tough leader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigewoodcock Posted March 23, 2014 Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 Good reply mate. My answer in this thread was to the individual poster. He said he was new to this style of fishing (chod/helicopter) so the safest way in my opinion for him was no leader. Imagine if he was advised to use a leader and then went on to thie it on with a swivel and proceeded to snap off? I agree with you that having a tough leader on when fishing a rotary arrangement would stop the swivel having any chance of damaging the line. That is why, when fishing without a leader (which I do most of the time, not always but most) I, at the time, adapted the use of a lead insert as shown in the last picture. Manufactures have now added bits to there range so that I don't have to anymore. The fox ones are perfect and nice and neat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theobeeus Posted March 23, 2014 Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) Good reply mate. My answer in this thread was to the individual poster. He said he was new to this style of fishing (chod/helicopter) so the safest way in my opinion for him was no leader. Imagine if he was advised to use a leader and then went on to thie it on with a swivel and proceeded to snap off? I agree with you that having a tough leader on when fishing a rotary arrangement would stop the swivel having any chance of damaging the line. That is why, when fishing without a leader (which I do most of the time, not always but most) I, at the time, adapted the use of a lead insert as shown in the last picture. Manufactures have now added bits to there range so that I don't have to anymore. The fox ones are perfect and nice and neat. Thanks mate Interested in these fox beads (please dig out a link or are they on the page already? I'm rushing a little bit to get to the kitchen and make the roasts today) and good to see that others out there think about having rig sleeves with rubber beads shoved on and swivels rotating on that etc. etc. as I spent ages over the last few years fretting over this one. I like a fluoro leader on my helicopter rigs better than leadcore, I use a quality sea fishing fluoro in 23lb, it behaves beatitifully and stretches nice and straight, never seems to tangle with my pure braid hooklinks on small ring/uni swivels, and the whole setup looks very simple and neat, a small tapered leader knot (Jon Bones one on youtube is neat) has a fox tapered bore small soft bead that sits perfectly on a drennan small floatstop, the ring swivel can pop over the lot with just a gentle tug Edited March 23, 2014 by theobeeus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodchester17 Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 the old leader argument!! jesus wept. we are fishing right? we are all so concerned that leadcore may damage a scale (no more than line does if at all) but its perfectly fine to trick a fish that is trying to eat to survive and drive a piece of sharp metal in its mouth, drag it 100 yards across its world under extreme stress, lift it out of its world  and start the suffocation process, pick the fish up with your hands and burning it, blind it with flah photography then put it back!! oh but its ok you had a barbless hook and no leadcore and you did use ur klinik !! newmarket, rosstheangler, hoorayhenri and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theobeeus Posted March 29, 2014 Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 (edited)   the old leader argument!! jesus wept. we are fishing right? we are all so concerned that leadcore may damage a scale (no more than line does if at all) but its perfectly fine to trick a fish that is trying to eat to survive and drive a piece of sharp metal in its mouth, drag it 100 yards across its world under extreme stress, lift it out of its world  and start the suffocation process, pick the fish up with your hands and burning it, blind it with flah photography then put it back!! oh but its ok you had a barbless hook and no leadcore and you did use ur klinik !! I can sort of see your point, but leadcore doesn't lift scales, and barbless hooks are far more damaging than microbarbed, and carp do not suffocate out of water for a good few hours.. Hopefully most people are are very carefully playing fish, landing them and treating them right o the bank, and weighing, photographing and returning them with less than 3+ hours faffing, and also keeping an eye out for bad anglers, otters, gill nets, long lines, litter and pollution and providing carp with a valuable food source while they're at it. In short, bad fishing is most definitely worse than safER fishing, which is the point of the thread. Edited March 29, 2014 by theobeeus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salokcinnodrog Posted March 29, 2014 Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 the old leader argument!! jesus wept. we are fishing right? we are all so concerned that leadcore may damage a scale (no more than line does if at all) but its perfectly fine to trick a fish that is trying to eat to survive and drive a piece of sharp metal in its mouth, drag it 100 yards across its world under extreme stress, lift it out of its world  and start the suffocation process, pick the fish up with your hands and burning it, blind it with flah photography then put it back!! oh but its ok you had a barbless hook and no leadcore and you did use ur klinik !! Sorry, I am sure that leadcore does damage fish as it rubs over them, and I don't think that mono line does. Do you use a leader when floater fishing? When stalking or when zig rigging?  All methods that are likely to be mainline through to a hooklink.  Frank, (Levigsp) and I are convinced that leadcore rubs, and can friction burn, even if the scar doesn't show up instantly. I used to use leadcore (exclusively), and have caught fish that have long marks down their flanks from what I'm sure is leadcore rub.  Add to that, a 40lb leacore or to some extent any leader is used by some to haul fish from areas where they simply shouldn't be fishing anyway simply because it is snaggy or weedy etc.  Now I'm certain that the leadcore argument will go on and on, simply because some people don't care, some because that is what is published, and some who don't feel swayed by argument or debate.  I have the view that I will not use a leader at all, unless I need to cast long distances, when a mono leader (Amnesia or Greased Weasel) is used to take the shock of casting. If there is weed or snags, tough, I have to accept I can't cast as far. I make sure that my lead can be ejected; a run ring will slide over most leader/mainline knots, or I have a Heath Robinson homemade  bead set-up for silt/helicopter or that dreaded chod word should I ever need to use them. A piece of stiff tubing, a rubber bead at each end, with a ring swivel for the rig in between.  The rubber bead will pop off the end of the tubing, the ring swivel and rig can come off the tubing, and up over the line or any knot. This homemade set-up can be fished as a semi-fixed arrangement when I need the rig near the lead (long casting), or as a free running silt set-up by athe addition of a tail rubber in place of bottom bead to 'fix' it to the lead attachment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorayhenri Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 (edited) How Does lead core cause friction burns in water opposed to mono? cant get my head around this, water acts as a lubricant so I assume there has to be some some serious rubbing going on to leave long marks down the flanks ! what on earth are you doing to cause this? When bringing carp in they are either zig zagging towards me or straight line in. The line is always away from their flanks, and  given that after the initial take all that is required for the carp to be coaxed in is a tight line I cant see for the life of me how you come to that conclusion. Edited April 18, 2014 by hoorayhenri Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liamclose Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 Funny 90% of people useing chods 6 or so years ago were useing leadcore now the naked chod is in vogue the very same people who used leadcore slate peole for useing it. If more people talked about there exprience and not just jumping on the band wagon fair enough but many are just repeating what they have read and heard and are talking rubbish. Leadcore is only as dangerous as the person useing it. Besides fish get teatherd by hooks not leadcore. pooter 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newmarket Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 Liam , the only occasions i used leadcore was when i was using the esp ready-made leadcore helicopter set ups ( i believe the also sell a lead clip version ) . One day i caught a mirror carp of about 10 maybe 12lb , i dont know i didnt weigh it , but it had really horrific mouth damage . Now , it put up a good fight and indeed was zig zagging all over the shop and i really dont know whether i or the leadcore was to blame for it but it was fresh damage so either i caused it or someone else caught the same fish half hour earlier and ripped its face to peices . Â What i do know is that i felt SO guilty afterwards that i have never used leadcore since ...just in case . Â I fish chods sometimes and when i do i fish 'em naked (so to speak ) but not because its in vogue or trendy . Â In actual fact the naked chod is probably far from trendy nowadays ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liamclose Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 Leadcore carnt be blamed for mouth damage to me its very ovious that hooks cause mouth damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorayhenri Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 I blame the nut on the end of the steering wheel! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grangemilky Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 (edited) How Does lead core cause friction burns in water opposed to mono? cant get my head around this, water acts as a lubricant so I assume there has to be some some serious rubbing going on to leave long marks down the flanks ! what on earth are you doing to cause this? When bringing carp in they are either zig zagging towards me or straight line in. The line is always away from their flanks, and  given that after the initial take all that is required for the carp to be coaxed in is a tight line I cant see for the life of me how you come to that conclusion.  Water is far to thin to ever be a decent lubricant. Put your leg in the water, and rub leadcore back and forth over your skin. Hurts doesn't it. Now try the same with rig tubing, or a thick mainline. Whilst your there, try 20lb whiplash braid too! Edited April 18, 2014 by grangemilky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newmarket Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 I blame the nut on the end of the steering wheel! As i said , i no longer use leadcore whether it was my fault or not . Â I've had no such incident since . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorayhenri Posted April 19, 2014 Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 Milkey - you got to stop eating the bait - what a load of rubbish you put forth there. And to Newmarket - ever thought that its never happened since....... is because you haven't caught that same fish again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazmati Posted April 30, 2016 Report Share Posted April 30, 2016 Heard a brilliant one today that I cannot believe I didn't think of before  Simply take the lead out of leadcore and thread your mainline through it = line completely protected  Or just use a thinking anglers naked chod runner bead (nice little things)  Or just use a tiny length of tubing plugged into two beads (superglue the bottom bead, works fine)  Another one I have done for years is just use a good strong line of 15lb with a very good quality smooth flexi ring swivel running on it naked (there is only one for the job and that is an ESP Hi-performance Uni link swivel, beautiful little things).. this is a lovely little ultra simple minimal setup that I would use far more were it not for my enduring obsession with simple running rigs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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