Odd shape baits

[johnplumb]

So we all know the traditional shape of a boilie and so do the carp , to try to fool them the dumbbell was introduced . After playing with a puzzle toy

i got to thinking ( christmas border setting in ) . Would different shapes help or hinder ? Im thinking triangles , T shapes , coin shapes .

Has anyone played around with such things , think it might work , or is this the stupidest idea you have ever heard .

Your thoughts please people .

[andy52]

sure i've seen missshaped boilies for sale

[Guest Anonymous]

different shapes and sizes, especially mixed trap stacks of carp as they all come off the bottom in a different way meaning that you don't really need to balance a bait to the hook.

 

The only problem I've ever had is putting freebies at range unless you tie a load of similar sized pva stockings to pult out.

[carpking4]

They sell off cuts at most bait shops near me, 10kg for about 15 quid

[moorsey]

Personally I think dumbells were introduced to fool anglers into buying them.

[Gaz]

^^^^^^^^^^^ spot on keith

[carpfisherlee]

Had of cuts/ over run from the bait and feed a frw times, excellent for getting them feeding on spots. If i roll my own I will do sausages and then chop them as its quicker.

 

As for different shapes in my experience ( I am allowed to mention that here am I not?) they can defiantly put extra fish on the bank, something different is always worth a try in fishing.

[zammmo]

I had a boilie shaped like Jesus's head once, Caught 30 fish and some loafs of bread with it

[emmcee]

solar tackle already do some called "wedges".ok, so carp may see round boilies as danger,but on the other hand it is one of there main sources of food.all i do is chop my baits when i want something a bit different to the norm'.

[moorsey]

I've got to ask this:-

To train a dog to recognise anything it takes several hours each week working one to one with that dog. How are carp supposed to "learn" that round baits are dangerous when they get caught, at most, 6 times each year?

It simply isn't possible.

[andy52]

carp are more intelligent than dogs mabey

[johnplumb]

Not sure that training a dog and a carp being wary of a certain food source

has alot to do with each other , the dog is being taught how to do something that it doesn't need in life , something unnatural and not required by the dog to survive , The carp on the other hand has very little else to think about but survival and yes the need to feed may well be the overriding factor but i dont see why they couldn't learn by association and at least be a little wary of certain baits.

[moorsey]

Not sure that training a dog and a carp being wary of a certain food source

has alot to do with each other , the dog is being taught how to do something that it doesn't need in life , something unnatural and not required by the dog to survive , The carp on the other hand has very little else to think about but survival and yes the need to feed may well be the overriding factor but i dont see why they couldn't learn by association and at least be a little wary of certain baits.

 

So let's take it one step further. Do you really believe that a dog would learn to avoid a certain type of food if you fed it to him all year but smacked him 6 times during that year for eating it? I think not.

[nafy118]

Not sure that training a dog and a carp being wary of a certain food source

has alot to do with each other , the dog is being taught how to do something that it doesn't need in life , something unnatural and not required by the dog to survive , The carp on the other hand has very little else to think about but survival and yes the need to feed may well be the overriding factor but i dont see why they couldn't learn by association and at least be a little wary of certain baits.

 

So let's take it one step further. Do you really believe that a dog would learn to avoid a certain type of food if you fed it to him all year but smacked him 6 times during that year for eating it? I think not.

 

what about putting a hook in his lip and dragging him away from that food 6 times a year?

[johnplumb]

I would expect it to learn if it tried to eat hedgehog and got a mouthful of needles 6 times in a year assuming there was another food source available . No newspaper required only the dogs natural instinct of what hurts and what doesn't

[russ_29]

sorry to interupt gents. this is highly ammusing keep up the good work. perhaps a lion or zebra maybe even a penguin as they swim regular lol

[nafy118]

sorry to interupt gents. this is highly ammusing keep up the good work. perhaps a lion or zebra maybe even a penguin as they swim regular lol

 

did i miss something??

[johnplumb]

Thought is was just me

[nafy118]

nope, certainly not alone . . .

[salokcinnodrog]

How much do fish identify food by shape?

 

The honest answer I reckon is very little, it is almost impossible to pick out that a bloodworm is about 1.2mm thick and 15mm long, they won't get picked or sucked up individually; The carp visit the area and suck and feed and end up with a ball or mass of bloodworm. Caterpillars, do they recognise that shape for shape or is it just treated as a slightly larger food item?

The same for mussels, sure they are all ovoid in shape, but the size is going to differ between each individual mussel. If you ever tried to use Mussels as bait, it would likely not be in its shell.

 

In terms of boilies, the difference is that a carp may well learn by association that a ball of food is a risk, but the more they eat then the less danger that is going to represent, so the carp aren't going to be wary. However if each time that a carp eats a boilie it gets hooked then it may well start to avoid that food, but that is probably representative of boilies as a whole, be they dumbells, balls or Bart Simpson shaped (yes I did make some that shape, play Doh cutters nicked from my children).

It would be the nutritional recognition that that food item is a risk, NOT the shape of it. Other things can blow a bait, be it a flavour, flavour base solvent, possibly even a colour, and they tend to blow that particular bait, the Pineapple Pop-up or The Cell because they don't get enough free food to balance the risk of capture. It is that that I think will make each bait blow or not.

 

If a bait is starting to be treated as a risk then the easier option is simply to get the fish accepting the bait comfortably again, be it that same bait by pre-baiting or by changing the bait you use to a different (Food Source) bait. One bait recipe will catch for years if it is fished right.

 

 

 

Nearly every packet of boilies has a mishape, and I like to use it as bait, not for the difference in shape, but because I don't think that a fish is going to differentiate between how much suck it exerts on a bait and hook. It can't say " that boilie is 15mm and I need to suck at 15kg of pressure to get that one in, but that mishape I will only need 10kg of pressure" if you get my drift. They will just hoover or pick up each bait down to the food signals they emit.There is a big BUT though, a different shaped bait will behave differently on ejection if a fish decides that it has a problem. A rounded bait may well be easily ejected, whereas other shapes may cause more difficulty.

So my view is that someone saw fish ejecting round boilies and hookbaits easily (not necessarily at the same time ), and decided that a dumbell would be more difficult to eject and sold the concept through an article. Angler and bait company pressure then decided that dumbells should be sold.

Most anglers still make a dumbell easily ejectable , they put the hair from end to end or side to side, very rarely at an angle from end to opposite side of the other end. That is all it may take to make a bait more difficult to get rid of as it then "tumbles".

 

Don't forget that the main reason that boilies are round is simply for ease of introduction. Round baits fly better, straighter and further than mishapes. Another reason for a round bait is that smaller silver fish can't pick at "corners". The easiest shape to make with a rolling table is what I and I'm sure others call "pillows". Simply gun out onto table and then cut. Then by matching boilie table size to nozzle size or sausage rolling size you get either dumbells or round baits. I reckon that you could still pick a pinch of bait from your paste by hand, boil it and you would have a boilie, with a very different texture and also unusual shapes. They would still be boilies.

Or again, make a sausage of bait, boil and then cut into discs, either before or after boiling, its still a boiled bait.

 

Just for the record, I have caught on all of the shapes mentioned above, including Bart